Hello everyone,
and welcome to the second part of our awesome series about
German Relative Pronouns
In the first part (find it here: German Relative Clauses – Part 1), we learned a bit about relative clauses in general and in English, just have some sort of background. And then we learned the basics about how it works in German.
Here are the three important points:
- All the verbs are at the end, just like in a weil-sentence
- German uses definite articles as relative pronouns. Like… all of them.
- Look left for the gender, look right for the case
Today, in a sort of Q and A format, we’ll talk about the finer details and flesh out some differences to English that lead to a lot of mistakes. Sounds good?
Then let’s jump right in :)
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Du hast mir von einer Freundin erzählt. Ist sie das?
how we use relative pronoun here
Not sure I understand.
You can’t use a relative sentence here because the first sentence is a statement while the second is a question.
exactly, it was given in some past year’s question paper.
Oh, I think they want this:
– Ist das die Freundin, von der du mir erzählt hast?
can you explain the structure ?like for whom the relative pronoun used. for friend?
“die Freundin, <---- von der..." Taken literally, it would be "The friend, <---- about whom..."
Got it, Danke !
Can I say that the part 3 is this?
Not really, no. I haven’t written part 3 yet. The wo-word article does have some overlap, yes, but it’s not really tieing into this series enough.
Thanks!
Hi Emanuel, how this sentence would be made if we go with rhyming thing?
. Das Kind wollte die Straße überqueren.
. Der Fahrer hatte das Kind zu spät gesehen
I don’t understand your question, please help.
. Das Kind wollte die Straße überqueren.
. Der Fahrer hatte das Kind zu spät gesehen
if we make relative sätze from these two sentences then, how it would look like :
which option is right grammatically and goes right with rhyming thing which you mentioned above.
Today, my teacher said that a sentence should make sense grammatically plus should sound good as well:(
I have no clue what you mean by “rhyming thing”. I am not talking about rhyming in the article.
About your versions:
1. Das Kind wollte die Straße überqueren, das der Fahrer zu spät gesehen hatte.
Here, the distance between “Kind” and the relative sentence about it is too big for comfort.
2. Das Kind, das der Fahrer zu spät gesehen hatte, wollte die Straße überqueren.
This is correct.
The best combination is:
– Der Fahrer hat das Kind, das die Straße überqueren wollte, zu spät gesehen.
And German doesn’t like it. It’s not wrong, but it sounds bad. Weird, right? I mean, German does like putting stuff at the end.
But German doesn’t like “poorly balanced” sentences. Here’s a scheme of the example above.
We have the main sentence (***), then we drop to a sub-level sentence (__) and then we go back up just for this tiny little pecker of main sentence. And that doesn’t look very good and it also doesn’t sound good.
This rhyming thing, I don’t know what to say it otherwise.
I did not get this, as a beginner how I learn this?
Is there any fixed structure for the relative clause? or do we have to see every time based on grammar, this rhyming sense, AND all the unsaid German rules?
Oh RHYTHM! Not rhyming. The text says rhythm.
“Is there any fixed structure for the relative clause?”
Not sure what you are asking. Yes, there is and it is described in the article.
What level of beginner are you? If you’re still A1 or A2, this stuff is nothing you need to worry about. It’s the finer points that you can perfect once you have the basics down.
Hi Emanuel,
In your example: “Thomas hat gesagt, dass ihm der Film gefallen hat, den ich ihm empfohlen habe”. I don’t succeed to get why we use “ihm” here. Sorry my question is not directly related to relative clauses
It’s because of the verb “gefallen”. The subject of “gefallen” is the item that is liked and the person liking is the indirect object.
The structure is like this:
– … the movie, “that (subject) pleased him (indirect object)”
Hope that helps.
Understood! Many thanks. I was confused because of “gefallen”
Your example of, This is the flat that I have always dreamed of. Native English speakers rarely follow grammar rules and it hurts the ears of those of us who take grammar seriously. Proper English grammar does not end a clause or sentence with a preposition. “This is the flat of which I have always dreamed.” This can sound snooty to some people because the way in which most say this is wrong. I actually appreciate the grammar rules in German and the fact that Germans follow them.
Quick question – are you referring to British English or American English or both?
I hear “dangling prepositions” literally every day in Youtube videos and podcasts (which are 95% American English).
American English and yes, I imagine you hear a lot of that. Americans are notorious for poor grammar. Most Americans still don’t know how to use…You and I or You and me. I would never suggest learning English grammar from an American. LOL
As a native speaker of AE, who studied Latin and whose mother learned English in London, I couldn’t agree more! Many native AE speakers use “you and I” instead of “you and me” apparently think doing so makes them sound more “educated”.
I even hear it in contexts sometimes where it doesn’t belong at all.
Like… “My boss was talking with Maria and I.” where you’d clearly need objective case (me). But people don’t necessarily even understand why some people want “You and I” used, they just hear “It’s correct (and hence more smartererer) and then they replace “and me” no matter the context.
hello Emanuel, may I know why you didnt even mention “dass” in these Relative Clauses articles? you only used it in last example and it only made me confuse. I loved all your articles I’ve read and learned the most out of it but this is the first time I feel like I’m confused.
I don’t see “das” as a relative clause usually in texts and they use %99“dass”
let me know if something’s wrong.
Regards
Sentences with “dass” are NOT relative sentences.
Relative sentences with “das” are not very common, compared to “der” or “die” because of the possible confusion with “dass”. At least in writing, people tend to use “welches” there.
Hope that helps.
QUESTIONS:
Can you say the following?
Er hat gesagt, dass er den Film gut fand, den ich ihm empfohlen habe.
Ich mache auf den Wein, den MEIN BRUDER MIR, geschenkt hat.
My question is about the position of “mir.” You placed “mir” before ” mein Bruder.”
Thanks.
In this instance, “mein Bruder mir” and “mir mein Bruder” are virtually the same, so there is no difference and both are correct.
However, it should be
– Ich mache den Wein auf, …
and not “Ich mache auf den Wein,…”
Fantastic! You answered a question I had had a long time about the ge-form and pre-fix split. Danke schõn! I sort of did it intuitively but never knew if was correct or not. What’s more, i never saw it in a textbook..
Happy to hear that I could help :)!
Emanuel, ausgezeichnet, wie immer. Ich dachte, ich würde darauf hinweisen, dass man in einem englischen Satz nur “restriktive Relativpronomen” weglassen kann, nicht aber “nicht restriktive”. It’s the whole “that” vs “which set off by commas” or who vs “who set off by commas” thing. Your examples in the article certainly imply it. At any rate, it was a helpful thing to know centuries back when I was in school. An aspect of the principle extends even to adverbial clauses: “I drove back to the building where I went to school.” There is no comma between “building” and “where” because it “restricts” the meaning of where I drove to. On the other hand: I drove back to Eastmont High, where I went to school. No need for the restriction since the place is identified.
Hope this helps someone,
Peter
Emanuel Bravo!! Sehr gut gemacht!! I’m very proud, I have you teacher in german. I feel my head a bit spinning…but I will recover, I think..Some of the pronouns’ rules, are the same in greek as well, as we use genders and cases as in german are used. But there are some differences in rules of the sentence’s structure. I hope you help me in future to feel more comfortable by thinking in german and make more correct sentences, faster and without being afraid to speak to someone, so as not to make the world’s mistakes….
Hey Emanuel, I like your style of explaining. This way it’s more entertaining to study, because this is a key point of learning. Then, the learning process becomes more amusing and fulfilling, efficient… etc. Besides, your jokes match the whole structure.
However, sometimes I am missing an explanation into more depth (to get my head around better about the stuff I learn, I usually end up looking more info on other sites, too), but probably you just want to present the topic as basic and more comprehensible as possible.
Not sure, what is better in this case, to leave out depth info and let people who want to find more to search additional info on other websites, or to present an article in a basic manner (as you do now) and leave it suitable and comprehensible for everybody.
However, this is rather an observation than a complaint for your own consideration.
Thanks, great stuff…
That’s always a question I ask myself :)… depth vs having a concise digestible story.
But actually, I’m happy to go deeper in the comments. What is it that you were missing here? Let me know and I’ll see if I can help :)
Mir fällt so wie “Ich habe Klavier spielen gelernt von dem Mann, der auch Mozart unterricthet hat” bessere ebenso wie weniger “disjointed” klingen würde. Oder?
Aber ich glaube, dass es ein Seltes statt fände, durch die Regel, dass die Verben “spielen gelernt”, am ende des Satzes “ich habe von dem Mann” gestellt werden sollten. Was haltest du dafür?
Nee, der Satz klingt komisch. Bei “gelernt” ist der Satz zu Ende, und das Element “von dem Mann” kommt zu spät. Das ist nicht wirklich falsch, aber es ist nicht natürlich.
I couldn’t find part three, the part about free relatives….
Doesn’t exist yet :/. Sometimes I get stuck on a topic and then I have to let it sit for a while (sometimes a year).
any luck? btw awesome stuff, as usual
1) I can see what you did with the some of the sentences I guess. But I don’t understand exactly what you mean by splitting the entity from it
2) the second one is split, do we always do that with perpostions? Send them to the end
Ich mache den Wein auf, den mir mein Bruder geschenkt
Ich mache den Wein, den mir mein Bruder geschenkt hat, auf.
3) Though I still have issues,I will try regardless.
3a) I liebe alles, vor allem dich
3b) I weiß nicht, auf dem Bett gern lernt.
3c) ich füttere dich, das Lebensmittel dich verkauft hast
4) How would you split “3c”
1) I don’t know what you’re referring to. I don’t remember the articles well enough, so if you have a question about something, you need to give me a little context.
2) again, I need context. Give me an example please and tell me what exactly you’re not clear about
3a) that’s fine (except “ich”)
3b) Makes no sense, what were you trying to say?
3c) This is completely broken. Like… I have no idea what you were trying to do here.
1) I will try. When using a realtive clause, it provides additional info about sth. And you can split it. I am confused by what exactly is splitting. Not the examples
2)Like this one
Ich mache den Wein, den mir mein Bruder geschenkt hat, auf
“Auf” is at the end instead of right after “Wein”
3b) was supposed to read ” I didn’t know that you like learning on (bed/table). I thought about using conjunction “dass” but it wouldn’t be a realtive clause then and also missing the “pronoun” in the second half was huge mistake to do. Thinking about “Weiß” was not a fitting verb to really try
3c) I can see how horrible it constructed. It should have meant “I am feeding you the food you bought”
Ich füttere dich, das Essen, das du gekauft hast
I should have tried sth different or sth with which.
1+2) It can be at the end or after “Wein”. Both are correct. I still don’t know what you’re asking.
3b) If there’s no relative clause in English then there’s not gonna be one in German. If you have a sentence with a “dass” you can’t just transform that into a relative by switching the “dass” with something else.
3c) Ah, I see. In German, the phrasing is “füttern mit”
– Ich füttere dich mit dem Essen, das du gekauft hast.
1+2) I cannot fing a good way to phrase them at the moment
Dankeschön
Hi, I have a question to these sentences:
Ich mache den Wein auf, den mir mein Bruder geschenkt hat.
Ich mache den Wein, den mir mein Bruder geschenkt hat, auf.
Wouldn’t the correct order be “mein Bruder mir”?
Thanks!
They’re both fine and idiomatic. My version sounds better to me, but someone else might disagree. Why would you say that “mein Bruder mir” is correct?
Ist Teil 3 schon fertig? LG Richard
Nee, noch nicht :). Halbfertig ungefähr.
Unglaublich 100 prozent. Ich denke der Test, den du vorbereitet hast, war zu einfach. ;)
Nee, einfach gut erklärt :).
Aber ernsthaft… die Theorie ist nicht so schwer zu verstehen. Mal sehen, wie es in der richtigen, praktischen Übung wird :)
Der Test funktioniert nicht. Grüße aus London
Hi, This is a very useful article. Thanks! German sounds like well spoken English. Did you say somewhere that English is a German dialect? When I went to school, back in the days when the Earth was young, one was taught not to end a sentence with a preposition. Now, of course, it is ubiquitous – even in written English.
Love your articles. Again thanks.
Einhörner : niedliche – nutzlosen – Nagetiere mit Pickelhauben
Eichörner : n-n-n (see above) ohne Pickel – ohne Horn
verbergt in Lauben,
unverbergt ihr Zorn,
beschimpfen den Herrgott ständig wüst;
ohne Ende für den Horn Verlust!
Wir entfliehen gleich dem Regelzoo,
und ziehen hin nach anderswo.
Heim im Käfig bleibt ”Der Große Duden”.
Es mitzunehmen hat keinen Zweck
Wir fahren mit vollgas Richtung Süden,
wo auf der Alm,
da gibts nua Dialekt (nur)
UND
auch ka Sünd! (keine Sünden)
————————————————————————
Vocab:
Oachkatzlschwoaf (Deutsch) Oak-tree-kitty cat(‘s)-tail
squirrel’s tail
— Katzl -Kickstarter for App for Alpen noun genders
GRATIS Unten zu haben!
The real nitty kitty !
So fill your box with acorns from the old oak tree,
with all its weathered, gnarly wrinkles
and the oak tree kittys
soon will come to do their doos
and take their Pinkels!
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Oachkatzlschwoaf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NeqhFWhyKE
”(man, I really struggled pronouncing that :) )”
.