Hello everyone,
and welcome to our German Word of the Day. This time we will have a look at the meaning of:
her (pron.: hair)
Her is a very important word in German and people use it every day. It is not part of the top 100 most frequently used words by itself but it is part of so many compounds that it would certainly deserve a place on that list. Her is also a very confusing word and even advanced students of German often forget it entirely… it is not quite crucial if you just want to be understood, but a missing her is like a picture that hangs at an angle… it hangs and yet it can drive people crazy, especially because the problem could be solved with minimum effort… for the angled picture that is.
I am sure that using her appropriately does take some effort if you’re not a native. So today we will look at this word and its mechanics. It won’t be so much about finding an actual translation… her is really more a concept, an idea most of the time, a free spirit, roaming your vast sentences at will, hooking up with all kinds of words for a quick menage, just to kiss them good bye as soon as you grab a dictionary… her… 3 letters short and yet powerful beyond compare, her has inspired people of all times who expressed their fascination by naming their noblest and strongest after her… her-o, Her-cules, Her-ry potter and Sup-her Man… and many many more…. and I see we have a call here, Martin from San Diego, Hi Martin, welcome to the show!
“Yeah hi, look …. can we start with the explanation already, I really have better to do than listen to you trying to be funny and su…”
Ooooh and the connection has died, what a pity… so I guess we’ll start.
As I said, it is better to think of her as an idea than as a translatable word. However there is a word in English that is pretty similar both in looks and in meaning and this word is… here. Now some of you may know here to be translated as hier in German. That is correct. Actually hier and her are brothers with different jobs. Hier means here, when you talk about a fixed location, and her means here when you talk about destination.
- Ich bin hier.
- I am here.
- Komm her!
- Come here!
That is it’s core of her… it means here in sense of towards here. By the way… the 2 are not interchangeable ever!!!!
- Ich bin her.
- Komm hier!
These 2 sentences are just sooooo wrong, and the second one actually does mean something you really don’t wanne say in public… Let’s look at one other example.
- Gib das her!
- Give that here! (lit.)
- Give me that!
Now her does not always mean the real place you are at… it has kind of broadened and can be a very abstract to here at times. And as such it serves a VERY important purpose in German.
Her … the general gist
When Germans talk about location they make a STRONG distinction between moving at a place or to a place. Every verb of motion… i repeat… EVERY verb of motion can be done at a place or to a place. English only occasionally makes a difference and marks it.
- I run in the subway.
- I run into the subway.
In this example it is marked, but in the following it is not.
- There is a golf course. Thomas drives there.
There is no indication as to whether he drives to the golf course or at the golf course and you have to decide by context. Such situations DO NOT exist in German. You ALWAYS need an indication that the movement is TO a place… if that is missing, people will perceive whatever motion to be done AT the place, even if the context suggests otherwise.
There are many ways this indication can be done, for example prepositions or cases or … the word her. It serves as an indication that the motion (go, come, put, jump, throw, beam, give, …) is done TO a place as opposed to AT a place and the destination is here. And as I said before, this here can be very abstract.
Let’s look at some verbs. The first one is herleiten. Leiten means to guide and to conduct so herleiten would be “guide to here”. The actual meaning of herleiten is to deduce… you literally guide something unknown to here, where we all can see it. Another one like that would be herstellen. Now stellen for itself is to put so herstellen should be to put to here or in correct English to put here… that is one meaning of herstellen but another is … to produce. Herstellen is actually THE German word for to produce… it is kind of … well… a little dumb when you really think of it :)
- BMW stellt Autos her.
- BMW puts cars here (on the planet).
- BMW produces cars.
Funny…
Her doesn’t only come together with verbs… you can also see it with prepositions a lot without being aware it is there. Do you know the words rein, runter, rauf or raus? Well all these are actually short forms of heraus, herein, herunter andherauf. They serve as “names” for places.
- Das Wetter ist schön. Deshalb gehe ich raus.
- The weather is good. That’s why I go outside.
Remember… just saying outside in German won’t be enough. You want to express that you go TO a place so you need to indicate that and a simple way is her. Now especially with these words her has lost the notion of here pretty much… it merely does indicate that the motion is TO a place and not AT a place. So in return that means that “Ich bin rein” isn’t really proper. You can’t say “I am to a place.” just like this.
So… to stress it again… the very core of her is here in sense of to here and it can be very very abstract or subtle.
And now I am sure, that a lot of you thought her was from, because in language class you learn this:
- Where do you come from.
- Woher kommst du?/Wo kommst du her?
That is the paradox of her… beware :)
The paradox of German “her”
To clarify this we need to look at how Germans ask for locations.
Generally you can be at a place, you can move to a place and you can come from a place. Each possibility has its own question in German.
- Wo bist du?
- Where are you?
- Woher kommst du?
- Where do you come from?
- Wohin gehst du?
- Where do you go (to)?
As you can see, the her is part of the question that asks for… an origin. Now isn’t that the total opposite of what I told you before????? Haven’t I clearly said that her means here in sense of to here… and isn’t that clearly a destination and NO origin???? Doesn’t the example clearly imply that her means from??? Untangling this might require some brain yoga but I am sure you are up to it, but oh I see we have another call here, Meena from India, what can I do for you?
” Hi Emanuel… I think I have an idea what you are going for and I’d like to try to explain it if that is ok…”
Well, sure why not. So go ahead.
“Great. Oh… I am nervous… So… The question woher (from where) does ask for an origin, that is true. We have been told that her means to here, so if that is true too there seems to be a contradiction… but only on first sight. “Woher kommst du?” is asking for an origin. Her is indicating a destination so the answer to where to? is part of the question where from?… it is her. That is not necessary but it is fine… because we are asking for an origin. Her just gives additional information on the destination, though very very vague… the from however does not exist in the German woher. It is there in meaning but technically it is missing.”
Ab-so-lutely … wow Meena, that was perfect. I couldn’t say it any better.
“Thank you … (laughs).”
In woher, the German equivalent of the question from where, there is no from but a kind of pointless to here instead. This becomes obvious, when you look at the other ways to ask from where in German. All are exactly the same and all valid and proper. One way is von wo?, which is actually the literal translation of from where.
- Von wo kommst du?
- From where do you come?
But there is also the combination of the 2:
- Von woher kommst du?
or similarly:
- Von wo kommst du her?
The literal translation of this is:
- From where do you come here?
And this shows it… the question word woher does actually not contain any from at all…from is missing but the idea is there anyway. Just like English leaves out to in “Where do you go to?” at times, German leaves out from in “Where do you come from?” and says an undefined to here instead. But at least this needs to be there as makes clear that we ask for about a movement TO a place and not AT a place. Wo can only ask for a fixed location.
- Wo gehst du?
This does NOT mean “Where do you go (to)?”. This means “At which location are you going?” as in you are walking around AT a place. Another example:
- Woher hast du deine Hose?
It means:
- From where do you have your pants?
But it is actually:
- (Von) woher hast du deine Hose?
From is just missing in the German sentence. You could also ask:
- Von wo hast du deine Hose?
All these questions are asking for the same information… But one thing you cannot do… leave out her AND von.
- Wo hast du deine Hose
This is asking:
- Where are your pants NOW?
You are asking for a fixed location because that is all wo? can do. If you have movement TO a place from some other place, you need to indicate that.
In daily life her in woher does feel like from to a lot of people . It did to me too till I tried to deal with the paradox. You can of course think of her as from if that is easier for you but then you will have her as from at times and her as hereat others… avoiding this was the purpose of the this part. But now let’s go back to speaking reality a bit :)
German “Her” in practice
So… her means here as in to here but here can be anywhere. It has broadened to be a general here. If you talk about the dress of a friend who is NOT there right now you can still ask woher she has it? It is not the here where you are… it is just indicating a direction. Her is used in a LOT of compounds. Depending on the perspective it can either be the her of woher, that is the one just indicating a movement to it’s present location or the actual here as in here. The best example is herkommen… this can either mean to originate (come from some place to here) or to come here.
- Wo kommt deine schlechte Laune her?
- From where does you bad mood originate? (kind of stupid example but I hope it helps)
- Meine Mutter kommt später noch her.
- My mom will come here later.
Other verbs with her are herstellen (put here/produce), herwerfen (throw here) or herbringen (bring here). Her is also the very opposite of hin. A pendulum is swinging hin und her – side to side. Hin und her has become a fixed idiom for “movement” without any real progress… imagine you are planning a BBQ and you keep changing the person responsible for the grill. That would be an appropriate use of hin und her.
- Ich habe keine Lust auf so ein Hin und Her.
- I don’t like such see-saw.
Beside location her is also used in the time domain – mainly in 2 occasions. The first one is this:
- Es ist 3 Jahre her, dass ich in Paris war.
- It’s been 3 years since I was in Paris.
Based on what I have been preaching throughout the post this literally-literally means
- It is 3 years to here, ….
So generally “It has been x time, since…” translates to “Es ist x her, …”.
- Es ist lange her, dass ich richtig betrunken war.
- It has been a long time since I have been really drunk.
The other occasion of her in the time domain is the word vorher.
- Ich gehe schlafen. Vorher putze ich mir die Zähne.
- I go to bed. First/before I brush my teeth.
- Ich muss zur Arbeit gehen, aber vorher muss ich meine Brille finden.
- I have to go to work but first I have to find my glasses.
Literally-literally vorher would be before here. And that makes sense as soon as you look at here as a more general somewhere. :)… I mean to me it makes sense. Just as a side note… whenever you say first in sense of before that as in the examples, vorheris THE word to go for… Now… I think we are almost done but there is one thing I want to talk about.
“Her” … the free spirit
I said in the introduction that her is a free spirit, and that has a reason, because just like its antagonists hin, her can do its job at different positions in the sentence as soon as it is a question.
- Woher kommst du?
- Wo kommst du her?
Both questions mean the same and which is used depends solely on personal preference or flow. This has some important consequence though. The verb in the first question is kommen, the one in the second is herkommen. Why? Let’s look at the past.
- Woher bist du gekommen?
- Wo bist du hergekommen?
So… her is part of the ge-form,or the past participle for the nerds of you ;). If you were to look up the verb of the second sentence you have to look under h, because the verb is herkommen. However, both questions mean the same, because her has the exact same function in EITHER sentence. So as soon as you have one her in your sentence, you have someone to do the job of indicating to here (or origin if you can live with the confusion). So you don’t need a double her. You need exactly one. Where it is (verb or question word) is not important. As far as her goes this freedom is not such a big issue, but it is the same basic idea for hin and there is way more room for mistakes related to verbs. So just keep it in the back of your head.
Now all that is missing is a summary… her originally means here in sense of to here. From there is has broadened its meaning in that it is not the very here where you are. In combination with wo, woher, it does nothing but indicate that we are talking movement rather than fixed location. It seems that it means from but technically the from is missing in the question “Woher?”… just like you don’t need to in English to ask for a direction, you don’t need from in German, to indicate origin. Bottom line… her is more a function word as a translatable one.
So… tough one this time… this was our Word of the Day her. I will post this as it is but I am not so sure as to whether it is understandable so please give me some feedback if it is not and tell me the parts that sucked so I can improve them or accidentally make them suck even more.
I hope you liked it and see you next time with something less grammarlicious.
Prima! Sehr nuetzlich und aufklaerend!
Danke schoen!
Alles klar. Vielen Dank.
I just have a question for one of your sentences. You wrote, “Ich muss meinen zur Arbeit…” I was thinking it should be “Ich muss zur Arbeit” or “Ich muss zu meiner Arbeit” but I am confused by what you wrote. Can you explain that one, please? Thanks again for a wonderful explanation; it really helped to clarify things!
your totally right… I think I had a different example first and then changed it without being thorough … Both your suggestions are 100 % correct. I am pretty lazy when it comes to proofreading my stuff I have to admit so thanks a billion for pointing that out.
I should take a little more care as it really is confusing in the examples :)
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I’m looking forward to your next installation.
does it mean that the same reasoning applies to ‘hin’ as well?
I mean, ‘hin’ then should mean something like ‘from here’ (am I mistaken?) and so ‘wohin gehst du?’ means ‘(where) are you going from here?’?
Great blog, by the way. I love your approach, you almost manage to make German look easy :)
Etymologically hin is the opposite of her and comes from the same base as hier and here respectively. It conveyed the idea “from here to somewhere” so based on that I think you got it right :). However, I don’t feel a strong indication of here in the word anymore. You don’t need to know what/where “here” is to understand hin, whereas for her you kind of have to know that.
Komm her!
If you don’t know what here is you don’t know where to go.
Geh hin.
It is doesn’t matter where you are neither where the speaker is so the “here” doesn’t matter. What matters is the destination and that’s all. So whenever the destination is not “here” wherever that may be… it is hin.
Geh hin!…. hin can stand for any location except the speakers here.
I hope that made some sense :)
So, when you tell me ‘geh hin!’ you’re kindly suggesting that I should leave you alone (it means ‘go wherever you want as long as it is not here’, doesn’t it?) :) I’m kidding, of course! Great explaination and thank you very much.
Bis bald
I recently found this blog and this section has helped a ton. However, I have a question. You said that “woher” implies the from and that “wo” is only for fixed locations. So how would one say “Where are you going to?” or “Where are you driving to?” without the implication of the “from?”
Danke!
That would be done with “wohin”. The “hin” is basically the “to”. Whenever you see “hin”, then something or someone is directed to a place.
– Wohin gehst du?
– Wo gehst du hin?
– Ich lege das Buch hin?
– I lay down the book (presumably on the couch or the table or wherever I am)
So… “Hin” means “to” and “her” implies “from”. We could also say that “her” means “from” in those questions but then we would have to accept that “her” can mean 2 things (from and here) and it wouldn’t reflect the origin of the word. Hope that helps :)
My German teacher just corrected my skit script, in which I wrote “Komm her!” as a command to a friend. I was trying to tell her to come here (over to where I was standing). My teacher, however, corrected that to “Komm hier”. From what I read on here, I think that my original was correct, am I right? What does “Komm hier” mean? Or if its literal translation is the same, what kind of connotation would that have? Is it something we should definitely not be saying in class? Thanks!
Yes, your version is prefect, your teacher’s suggestion is WRONG and yes, literally your teacher’s version is indeed something to maybe not say in class :)… there is a joke with this:
Kommt eine Frau beim Arzt.
That’s the joke. Same pun.
Vielen Dank!!!
As the teacher in question, I respectfully disagree with the above characterization as well as the “von wo” suggestion in your explanation, which would actually be Wovon. I appreciate your attempt to make German easier, but not when it is contrary to actual rules of the language, that we as German teachers, try to impart. I am not a native speaker and do not claim to know everything, but I have been teaching for 18 years and do expect that my students will trust my teaching as someone who has lived in Germany and travels there regularly. One must always remember that what one hears and what is actually grammatically correct are not always the same thing…
With all due respect… I am a native speaker and I guarantee you that “Komm her” is the correct version.
Here is the Google N-gram to back my point:
http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=komm+her%2C+komm+hier&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=20&smoothing=3&share=
Also, if you ask for the origin of something “wovon” is not the correct word… you cannot ask:
“Wovon kommst du?”
The only instance in which this is correct would be if the answer was an event rather than a location. Generally people do ask “Woher?” or “Von wo?”
As for your last sentence… well, there is some truth to it but I doubt that me, all my friends and all other people I talk to are constantly mishearing and misspeaking something as basic as “Komm her.” Can you give me one source that supports your theory? You can check online dictionaries, read comics or novels… you will always find “Komm her”…
If you want your students to trust you you will definitely have to able to admit when you are wrong.
According to your own profile, you are not a native speaker, you are 32, were in Finland at the age of 54 and have been teaching German for 72 years…and why should we trust you exactly? I don’t have to prove anything to you and certainly anything can be twisted to suit your own suppositions. For your information, I never told my student that Komm her was wrong, just that I would prefer them to be clear at this very low level of German by using hier, so as not to confuse with herkommen, which even you agree is rather contradictory in meaning.
Thankfully I don’t need your approval to feel secure in my German skills. My advanced degrees, 18 years of teaching experience including awards and speaking engagements, hundreds of successful Advanced Placement students, and regular exchanges to Germany tell me all that I need to know.
You don’t have to trust me… just do a Google search or ask other native speakers. If the village idiot runs onto the market place saying that there is a fire around the corner… you can discard it or just take a look. It is your choice.
I will repeat for my other readers so as to not have them learn incorrect stuff:
– Komm hier! is not clear, precise or anything… it is just not correct. It is a mistake that will stick out to a German immediately. Do not do it!
– herkommen is by no means “rather” contradictory in meaning
No one is perfect, no one knows is omniscient, there are always things to learn… especially when it comes to language. Try to keep an open mind.
Als ich in Deutschland war, mann sagt mir immer: “Wo kommen Sie denn her?” Niemals “Wo kommen Sie denn hier?” Selbst wenn ich ein dummer Amerikaner bin, “Komm hier” klinkt falsch.
Damn, this is exactly the type of teacher that I would hate to have.
Good thing you don’t have him, then.
I always loved reading the comment section of this blog. But this part just reminded me of the most horrible date I went on with a German teacher – I told him half jokingly that if he wanted to be a good English teacher(he was teaching English at a Japanese high school), then he should stop referring to his computer as “him” which is good German but not good English. He got really really upset by the comment, pointed his finger at me, and basically said exactly what this person here said: “don’t you tell me what’s right or wrong, I know what I’m doing”
One thing that makes this blog great is how modest the writer always is. It’s a much overlooked virtue for teachers. Somehow lots of teachers are trying their best to be drill sergeants: always pretending to be in the right & never admitting they are wrong. Unfortunately, that self-righteousness does not build authority in the context of schooling. At least I remember all too vividly how we made fun of those teachers who refused to admit their mistakes behind their backs.
Hey Xu, sorry for taking so long with the response. Your story reminded me of a moment I had during one of my very brief stays at a conventional language school. I was applying for an internship and the head teacher was questioning my background on grammar because I have no official education in this field whatsoever. And he said that in order to teach I need to be able to answer EVERYTHING (German related) because “a teacher can’t show weakness”. As in, a teacher can’t show that they don’t know all the answers.
It’s a super weird statement when you think about it because no one knows everything.
That’s always been one of the upsides of having a blog… I can just say it, if I don’t know something, because there’s no expectation that I know everything, neither from the students nor from a boss.
Thanks for the kind feedback :). I really appreciate it!
First of all, thank you for making German indeed easier! I am quite a fan of yours! Okay, I have a question. I hear and see “hierher” in German, why is this? Is it a double here here? If herkommen means to come here, then why add the extra “hier”? Also the same would go for dorthin, why both dort and hin? Any light that you could cast on these seemingly puzzling combinations would be greatly apprecaited.
Well, the original meaning of “her” is “here” but it has blurred quite a lot and it is not really talking about a location but more about a movement toward the speaker… semantically, the “here” is implied but the focus is different.
– Gib her!
– Give it to me!
Here, it doesn’t really answer the question “where to?”.
“Hierher” is kind of just a stronger “her”.
– Komm her!
– Komm hier her!
They both mean the same, the second one is just more “hererer”. But there is no
– Komm dort her!
so it is indeed double. The “hier” asnwers to “where” and the “her” indicates the movement toward the speaker.
I should probably also add that “her” does mean different things in dialects. My girlfriend says
– Wo gehen wir her?
while I would say
– Wo gehen wir lang?
in sense of
– Which way should we go?
She is from the western part of Germany and I think in Bavaria the use of “her” is different, too.
There is a great website of a university where you can find maps for all kinds of regional differences including one that sort of fits this question
http://www.atlas-alltagssprache.de/runde-3/f04a-f10d/
“Komm hier her” is definitely the most common but there are some really weird version that are just wrong to me :)
i think when we say ” er kommt hier her ” then it’s more specific than ” er kommt her ” but grammatically both are right whether it is in question or in affirmative , what do you think ???
Yes, that’s right… the “hier” puts an emphasis on the very location you’re at.
“Mein Bruder aus Sübafrika kommt her.”
“Nach Berlin?”
“Nee… also, ja… aber hier her, in die Bar… in 10 Minuten.”
Hoffe das hilft.
exactly what was in my mind =D
DANKE :)
Emanuel, Thanks! This helps, the idea of one aspect being motion (her) and the other being location (hier) makes sense!!
I read the debate above with interest, and then looked up “her” and “hier” in Duden, which is pretty clear that her = destination and hier = location. As a student of German, I think it’s important to be precise even in the early stages of learning because German is a more exact language than English. Anyway, I do have a question in regards to something mentioned: von wo vs. wovon. My understanding is that wo + a preposition (ex., womit, woran, etc.) translates the wo as “what” and not “where,” so that “wovon” means “from what” and NOT “from where,” whereas “von wo” does in fact mean “from where.” Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding something? By the way, I find your blog very helpful when I’m searching for more detailed explanations. Most basic to intermediate German texts aren’t very in-depth, which I find frustrating. Thanks!
You totally got it right. “Wovon” means “von was”. It is also sometimes used as “von welch..” as in “of which”, the relative pronoun but in most cases that would be bad style.
Der Film, wovon ich dir erzählt habe,…
The movie , of which….
better would be
Der Film, von dem….
As for the destination vs location… just to make sure… it is a little dangerous maybe to phrase it that way because some might understand
Wo kommst du her?
as asking for a location… I mean… it is. The point is that “her” means movement, while “hier” doesn’t. So “hier” does not work with words of movement and “her” doesn’t work with stuff like “to stand”.
And then… does it mean a destination? Yes, for many verbs it does. But for the question
Wo kommst du her?
it sounds like it asks for an origin. The destination “here” has blurred away.
You probably got that right anyway but I just wanted to make sure :)
Thanks–yes, I understand. Destination/location are just the shorthand words I use for myself, as in something/someone is moving to a destination rather than in a fixed location. And thank you for responding so quickly. I may have to ask more questions now!
Is it safe to say, that the wo- words would be (in a more logical, parallel universe) better called was- words? They really have nothing to do with “wo”, right?
wovon = von was
womit = mit was
worauf = auf was
And it is always a “was”, because with people we would not use a wo- word (sonst mit wem, von wem).
This post was precisely what I needed today. I’m trying to make sense of German’s hyper precise sense of Lage und Richtung bei der Bewegung.
I’m trying to wade through the seemingly endless compound her/hin words, including Abkürzungen:
Ich gehe hinauf. Du kommst herauf.
Ich gehe rauf. Du kommst rauf.
Ich gehe nach oben. Du kommst von oben.
Ich gehe aufwärts. Du kommst aufwärts.
So my assertions (which are very likely flawed / wrong) are:
0) with an explicit “hin” or “her” word, the direction of movement in unambiguous.
1) prepositions can be used to clarify “to here”/”from here” (von/nach). Sometimes they are mandatory (nach rechts, von links)
2) shortened forms like raus/rüber can switch hit as ‘her’ or ‘hin’ words and the verb and context clear it up. (runter gehen, runter kommen)
3) It seems like words like abwärts and aufwärts function like the shortened forms above: verb and context make it clear if it is “to here” or “away from here”?
Bin ich auf dem Holzweg?
Tausend Dank
http://www.mein-deutschbuch.de/lernen.php?menu_id=72
Yeah, except for “wohin” and “woher” pretty much all wo-words are at their heart was-words.
As for your assertions:
0)… I’m not 100% sure what you mean by this. It is definitely clear that there is a direction but when you look at words like “hinauf” or “herunter” there is quite some uncertainty as to which of the two “hin”/”her” is appropriate in a certain context. It also varies by region. My girlfriend uses “her” in sense of “along”
– Wo wollen wir hergehen.
What she means is “What way should we take.” but to me this stil sounds very much nonsensical. I’m like “Why hergehen? We’re here already aren’t we”
1) Yes, prepositions can indicate directions. If the location itself is a fixed place like “Baum”, “links” or “oben” then they are mandatory.
2) Yeah, all the “r”-words are pretty much just shortened “her”-words. Though they have come into their own in many phrasings and you can’t un-shorten them without having it sound stilted or even changing the meaning.
– Komm runter!
– Chill out! Sober out!
– Komm herunter!
– Come down(stair)!
Usually the r-words are combined with the verb… so it’s “runterkommen” rather than “runter kommen”. The latter isn’t wrong but having them on the verb makes more sense on many levels
3) “aufwärts” and “abwärts” do not have an inherent reference to the current location.
Like… if you say “Er kommt her” you’re always speaking relative to the location where you’re at. If you say “Er geht abwärts” it’s relative to his location and has no automatic relation to where you are. But that’s the same for the “r”-words. “Er geht runter” also doesn’t refer to your location.
In fact, the only word that really does have a relation to where you are is “her”. “hin” can also refer to any starting point.
Man, I hope I’m not being confusing :)
So a question that has been confusing me persistently (I don’t think I’ve asked it yet) is talking about past events in two ways:
1) You did something in the past and are no longer doing it. (I **did do** something)
2) You started doing something in the past and it is continuing into the present. (I **have been** doing something)
-Ich habe Deutsch gelernt
– I studied German. (and I am no longer actively studying German)
Can this first example also be translated to “I have been studying German” ?
– Ich habe Deutsch 3 Jahre lang her gelernt.
– I’ve been studying German for three years (now). (I started studying German in the past and I still am)
My main question boils down to how to communicate actions that started in the past and continue into the present (as indicated by “has been/have been” in English)
Danke im Voraus
Good question… I’ll save that for the next QAS – episode :).. by the way, you should take a look at the QAS-1 because the way you used “her” was wrong and there we talk about exactly that :)
Thanks for your great german website! Would it be possible to include a comparison between “hin” and “her”? I couldn’t find “hin” as a word of the day. Thanks!
Jap… I’ll put it on the list :)
Oh but just in a nutshell… it is the opposite… “her” is “to here”, “hin” is “to there”.
There are two sets of English words that are now mostly obsolete that share some of the idea of “hin/her”: “hither/thither” and “hence/thence.”
“Hither” = “to here”; occasionally you might still here somebody say “come hither” to be cute and sound kind of Shakespearean or King James-y.
“Thither” = “to there”; never used conversationally, unless somebody who wants to sound highbrow uses “hither and thither” (though “hither and yon” is probably more common) to mean “all over the place, over a wide range.”
Those both have to do with destination in space exclusively. The corresponding question word is “whither”: “Whither goest thou, dude?” “Thither, but I’ll come right back hither afterward.”
“Hence” and “thence” are the opposites, meaning “from here” and “from there” respectively.
“Hence” is the most common in contemporary English, mostly with its more abstract meaning, which is pretty close to “therefore” or “thus” but works a little differently in syntax. You’re really not supposed to use it to introduce a whole clause, just a noun/noun phrase: “He’s been unemployed for the last nine months, hence his encyclopedic knowledge of daytime TV programming.” It might help to think of it as meaning “this explains.” But in older English usage it also had the spatial meaning: “Get thee hence!” = “Go away!” or “Off with you!”
“Thence” pretty much always sounds old-fashioned or high-toned. Then you’ve got the question word “whence,” so the Shakespearean translation of “Woher kommst du?” would be “Whence comest thou?” (sample answer: “Greenwich Village. Many a fine bard came thence in the ’60s.”)
Anyway… ich denke, dass ich die “her”-Idee relativ gut verstehe und ich kann sogar begreifen, warum es “(he)raus, (he)rein” usw. heißt aber es fällt mir schwer, die entsprechenden “hin-“-Wörter zu kapieren. Ich fänd es klar, wenn “herunter” die Bedeutung “down this way” bzw. “hinunter” die Bedeutung “down that way” hätten (und es ist doch schon so, kinda sorta?) aber scheinbar ist der eigentliche Fall etwas komplizierter, oder? Ich kenne ein paar abstrakte “hin-“-Phrasen, wie z.B. “darüber hinaus,” wobei die Logik mir ziemlich klar ist. Es bleibt aber schwierig, “hin-” im allgemeinen zu verstehen, denn “her-” hat keine klare “to(ward) here” Bedeutung.
Also dem Wunsch nach “hin” als Word of the Day stimme ich ganz stark zu. :)
Wow thanks for this little tour. I’m sure many will find that really helpful and fascinating (I think I learned about hither and the like in the oddest of places… in Shrek 2 :)
As for “herunter” vs “hinunter”…technically that depends on where you’re standing. So if you’re “unten” and you want the person to come to where you are it would be “herunter”, if you’re “oben” and the person is practically leaving you then it would be “hinunter” even if “unten” is a goal.
However, it’s not always that clear and often both versions can be used…
– Maria geht die Treppe hinunter/herunter.
We have no relation of Maria and the speaker so basically we have no reference.
I think in these cases it’s often a regional thing, so the South does it differently than the North. I can’t say anything for fact though.
What I do can say (just kidding ;) is that at least the shortened “her”s have lost much of their extra info and just express “direction”. “hinein” and “rein” are the same…. to me, at least.
Ich gehe schlafen. Vorher putze ich mir die Zähne.
Can I instead say:
Ich gehe schlafen. Davor putze ich mir die Zähne.
We can also use “davor” with the meaning “before that”, can’t we?
Ja, das ist beides ok. “Vorher” klingt ein bisschen weniger direkt als “davor”.
Thank you for the help! :)
Just a little note in English:
Es ist lange her, dass ich richtig betrunken war.
It is a long time, that I haven’t been really drunk.
This doesn’t really make sense and you can’t use ‘that’ here. A better translation keeping this structure would possibly be ‘since’, i.e. ‘It’s been a long time since I’ve been really drunk’, but sounds a bit komisch. I’d say personally: ‘I haven’t really been drunk in a long time’, or ‘I haven’t been properly drunk in such a long time’.
Cool, thanks. I wasn’t sure about this sentence but I felt like I had heard it somewhere. Now you made me check again on Google and there are actually 35 million hits for the phrase “It’s a long time that”. So is it maybe a regional thing? Like… does it sound really flat out wrong to you or is it more like just not 100% proper?
https://www.google.de/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1DVCJ_enDE430DE443&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=%22it%27s+a+long+time+that%22&start=80
I think it’s because you’re on Google.de! I went on google.co.uk for example and all it is is foreigners asking what’s the correct grammar haha!
It’s definitely not a regional thing, it’s just a generally flat out wrong in this particular context; sorry! I can’t think of a sentence where you’d ever say ‘it’s a long time that’, only ‘it’s been a long time that’. I’m trying to think!
“It’s a long time that we had together, but now it’s over” perhaps works for example but still very clumsy; more like “we knew each other for a long time, but now it’s over.”
Hab eine Frage hier ^^
Ich stellte mir diese Frage… sind hierfür, hiermit usw… Synonyms mit dafür, damit usw… ?
Z.b = Der Kampf um Rohstoffe.
Die einzigen Lösungen, die mehr schlecht als recht funktioniert…
Das beste Beispiel hierfür ist die Europäische Union und ihr Kampf ums Überleben.
Danke im Voraus wie üblich und vielen Dank für allen diese wervolle Informationen. =D
Sagen wir mal es sind “quasi-Synonyme”… die VErsion mit “hier” klingt einfach “hierer”. Man zeigt direkt dahin, wo man gerade ist (hier) und nicht irgendwo anders hin (da).
In dem Beispiel, das du gegeben hast, könnte man meiner Meinung nach auch “dafür” verwenden, und es würde keinen große Unterschied machen.
If raus is short for heraus, which involves movement towards the speaker, then why does raus mean out? It’s a bit illogical.
Germans use “her” and “hin” as prefixes very inconsistently and some would argue that “heraus” indeed only works if the speaker is outside calling the other person to come to him (out). As for “raus” and “heraus”… the inconsistency is even bigger if we just have an “r-version”. The actual direction is totally obscured. Only the fact that there is a direction is still there.
Hi!
I am a big fan of yours. I am learning a lot thanks to your haaaaard work here, as you can explain everything through an “easy way”.
I understand more or less the difference between “her” and “hin”, but I still don’t get something… maybe because my mother language is not English and I misunderstood something or… because the german language is weird. Maybe both. :P
Here is my problem:
– Ich gehe raus.
– Ich gehe hinaus.
Are both correct? If the answer is yes, when do I say “raus” and when “hinaus”?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Damián
Both are correct but “hinaus” sounds much fancier. I use it precisely… never. And I think it’s the same for most people… “raus” is the standard everyday word, “hinaus” you can find in books and newspapers.
Wow. This is awesome.
This site has become my default site for clarifications. I find it much more useful than sites with grammatical explanations. Thanks for all your work.
I have a question. If hin is the opposite of her, wouldn’t “Wohin kommst du?” be more suitable for “Where are you coming from?” rather than the convoluted one with “Woher”? Any theories for this :) ?
“Wohin kommst du” is asking for a location to which the target is moving, and at which the speaker is most likely not. “wohin” is purely about destination, not about origin so you can’t use it to ask for “where from”. Hope that helps.
to make it simple: hinein/herein = rein. hinaus/heraus = raus. and thats how they usually use it. you understand what the other means just by the verb. “komm rein” (for example. the speaker is inside and says to his friend “komm rein” who is outside). “geh raus” (the speaker is inside and says to his friend, who is also inside, to go out). komm raus ( the speaker is outside and his friend is inside, the speaker tells him to come outside) geh rein (the speaker is outside and tells his friend to go inside). same goes for many other as well.
Im not sure did my message come through?
It did. I just have to approve it, that’s why it takes a little sometimes.
I find the attempted explanation of the “missing from” in “woher” somewhat confusing and ultimately unnecessary. Consider the symmetry of these two statements and their English transalations (with implied translation in brackets):
Woher kommst du? Where are you coming from (to here)?
Wohin gehst du? Where are you going to (from here)?
Both English translations make explicit the place we are heading towards or coming from, ie the “there”. The location of the speaker is implied in both cases. The “here” is not explicit in either case. The reason is that the speaker in both cases is seeking information about the “there”. So this works logically, intuitively and naturally for me and does not require any mental gymnastics.
That’s a great analysis for English. The reason why I wanted to include this indeed abstract and theoretical bit is that most students I’ve met where thinking of “her” as from and then got confused once they see her in combination with verbs. The whole point was that “her” basically never means “from” and the reason it’s i the question is that the question is phrased differently than in English.
It’s a pretty old article though, so I suppose the writing/explaining could be made a bit more clear and crisp.
Anyway, thanks for your input!
Fantastic post. Not only did it clarify her/heir, it gave me the missing linguocultural understanding that German speech specifies direction, whereas English leaves it ambiguous. (yes, I made up linguocultural just now.)
“lingocultural”… not bad :)