Hello everyone,
and welcome to our German Word of the Day.
This time, with a look at the meaning of
dienen
And of course that means will also look at the two prefix verbs verdienen and bedienen, which seem to serve very different purposes, but today we’ll see how they all actually tie together.
So, are you ready to jump in? Then let’s go….
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reading the verdienen part, as “deserve” comes from french/latin deservir, which itself is de+servir, I wonder if “de-” in english *serves* a similar function to “ver” in how it’s used
another article that tickles the brain thank you
Are there any other fun -dienen verbs like verdienen? I am curious if anything else works well in its English translation like that. De-serve is perfect
Question, In the following example: “Äh, warum ist ein Elefant der Küche?”
“Der dient als Erinnerung daran, dass du den Abwasch machen sollst.” Can “der dient” also be translated as “er dient”? Is there a difference and is one more idiomatic? Thanks for the help.
“er” would also work. The “der” just makes it a little more “pointy”, if that makes sense.
A bit like this:
Emanuel you explain things really good. My non-native brain absorbs all what you say.
Glad to hear that :). Danke für das schöne Feedback!!
Moin moin,
Was für einen spitze Artikel. hab’ mal ‘ne Frage. Wie oft man als den Sinn von “die Nase voll haben” den Ausdruck “bedient sein” verwendet? Insbesondere zum Kellner im Restaurant kann das mal nicht so deutlich sein, im welchen Sinne bedeutet “Ich bin schon bedient.”
“bedient sein” sounds a little old school and high register. My mother uses it from time to time, but I don’t think I ever do.
Oh, und im Restaurant würdest du weder “bedient sein” noch “die Nase voll haben” verwenden, es sei denn, du fandest es WRIKLICH scheiße.
Ja, ich weis. Oder, ich denke dass ich weis. :) etwas ist micht mehr neu, und man kann das nicht mehr verwenden. zum beispiel Das Schulsystem ist ausgedient. Ist das ok?
Pardon, HAT ausgedient. :) Entschuldigung Lehrer! :) ubrigens, was bist du von Beruf?
Oh, ups… sorry. Ich habe diesen Kommentar zu spät gelesen :).
Mein Beruf ist im Moment das hier :)
Fast richtig… das Schulsystem HAT ausgedient :)
It “has done” its serving, if that makes sense.
ausdienen ist interesant
Haben Sie es vergessen oder ist nicht vichtig?
Bin grad im Urlaub und lese nicht so oft die Kommentare :)
Hast du eine Idee, was das heißt ;)?
Eigentlich findet man es nur in der Phrase:
” XY hat ausgedient.”
Maybe I should have read the comments before offering my 2 (redundant) cents…
Maybe “whipping boy” is similar to “Depp vom dienst”?
I looked up in the dictionary and found that ‘der Verdienst’ means salary(=das Gehalt), and ‘ DAS Verdienst’ means merit or credit. Stimmt das?
Oh , ja ich glaube das stimmt. Although in my head “der Verdienst” also “feels” like “merit”. Maybe it’s a regional thing. “das Verdienst” is only “merit” though, never salary.
In terms of “the scent was enchanting” – this doesn’t really work in terms of food.”Scent” is usually used for something more delicate :
“The scent of her perfume was enchanting”/ The scent of the roses filled the room. Whereas , you would say,in regards to food,”What’s cooking? It smells delicious.” I take the point someone made that “smell’ can often have a negative connotation as in “What’s that awful smell?” or “Go and have a shower, you smell. ” But I think mostly you’d say “stink”for that! but in terms of food, “smell” is most used. “Aroma” is quite formal and certainly not colloquial. “The aroma of Jean-Claude’s Duck L’Orange filled the restaurant.”
This is a tricky one. I kind of agree about “scent” – maybe not “delicate,” exactly, but it’s not something you’d usually connect to food. Hunting dogs track prey by “scent” (they’re “on the scent” or “pick up the scent”); many animals, including skunks, have “scent glands” (often producing very non-delicate smells!); and the examples you give fit perfectly. If anything, I’m inclined to say that a “scent” is the smell that identifies something, like “scent of roses,” “scent of her perfume” (or Chanel No. 5, or whatever), “scent of fox,” whatever. It’s not a term you tend to attach an evaluation to, which I think is why “the scent was enchanting” is a little odd. It kind of needs to be the scent OF something, which of course you might say is enchanting, or nauseating, or whatever.
I don’t think “aroma” is all that formal. To me, that’s the best way to describe a good food or beverage smell, certainly if you’re going to use a word like “enchanting” to describe it.
Hi Emanuel, I was hoping you could clear something up for me. I understood from the article that bedienen was the word used for operating devices. In the vocab list at the bottom you have:
dienen – to serve (as in render service, usually used for devices nowadays)
Can both be used? Sorry, just a little confused. Great article as always!
Oh, good question. What I meant there is that the device serves a purpose.
For example:
– Das Handy dient als Wecker.
– The phone serves as an alarm.
Does that help?
Hello All! I wanted to thank the wonderful community members here who contributed extra to this amazing blog! Your generosity has sponsored my membership, for which I am eternally grateful! This is an invaluable resource for anyone who is learning German. So, I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for giving me the opportunity to learn more about the German language and word usage. ~ Lassi
Der Depp von Dienst might perhaps be translated by ‘class clown’. This is a pupil who is prepared to be laughed at so that they are the centre of attention and in the limelight. They are not concerned by nor take to heart the censure of their fellows. Should the teacher place a Dunce’s cap on their head then this would only in their mind further enhance their reputation for silliness.
Oh, that’s called Klassenclown in German. “Depp vom Dienst” is nothing anyone wants to be. The usual usage is by someone complaining about how they’re being treated…
“Because it is service in a sense of customer satisfaction and care (that is Service)”
Did you mean “Because it is NOT service in a sense of customer satisfaction and care (that is Service)”? I’m confused.
Quang: I should pro’lly let Ema reply to this one, but perhaps I can help until he’s back on his feet after celebrating Ostern, just a hunch…
I think that “der Dienst” is like a duty as in job duty, on duty, on the work roster to be doing his job, and then the job has to involve a service directly to a customer/user. like police officer, nurse, pilot, fireman, etc. Putting in 4 hours a day to do research in the cellar isn’t really “on duty”, but rather “going to work”. Being “on duty” connotes a feeling of someone being on the job, ready to do their job when/if necessary and that job involves doing something for somebody.
Compare to someone who goes to work and screws caps on toothpaste tubes for 6 hours a day – they are not on duty, but rather “at work”. “On Call” means more that you are at home PREPARED to show up at work if they phone you, but “on duty” is actually at work, doing stuff like drinking coffee until someone shows up to report a crime, calls in to report a fire, shows up with a gun-shot wound, etc. News teams are often “on duty” evenings weekends – doing odds and ends at the office/in the studio, prepared to hit the road to film a fire, arrest, natural disaster, demonstration, or whatever else comes in over the Police Radio. Reinforcements are “on call” (at home, ready to mobilize) in case one of the above situation requires more personnel.
Does that give you a feel for the “on Duty – der Dienst”?
Thanks for filling in :).
As for “Dienst”… it is a bit unclear, what exactly is one and what isn’t but also thrifting through documents in a basement could be called “Dienst”, I suppose.
I didn’t escalate in any way, btw. I was actually waiting tables yesterday, swiftly like a gazelle and in a friendly manner :)
Ugh, yes!!! I hate these little mistakes. I kept re-writing this little two sentence section and whenever I do that, these mistakes sneak in and I’m so blind by the sentences that I don’t see them.
So… dienen is NOT used in context customer satisfaction.
Sorry for the confusion.
Um, a diener is the pathologist’s assistant in the autopsy lab, so, the word still lives, unchanged at least in that (very) specific usage.
Really? Wait, do you mean in German or in English?
thank you for the lesson.
I would be grateful if you could do a post on the multiple meanings of ansprechen, some of which are not intuitive at all
Good idea! I had overlooked this one. Added it to the list. Danke für den Vorschlag!
Depp vom Dienst: I can’t think of a direct translation. Someone mentioned “village idiot” but that misses the implication of arbitrariness. “Whipping boy” isn’t a perfect match either, but it does have the sense of someone appointed for abuse by everyone else.
It took me a few days, but it just hit me; Depp vom Dienst must be THE FALL GUY! The guy that takes the rap. Dict.cc doesn’t agree with me, but I’m getting a “fall guy-feeling” about “Depp vom Dienst.” Whipping boy also feels quite correct.
Wait, that was a TV series from back before we both were born. In German it was apparently called “Ein Colt für alle Fälle”. Was “fall guy” and idiom before that series or because of it?
Already an idiom, is my guess.
Yes, already an idiom well before the TV series, about 1904 according to this: https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/fall-guy.html
What about scapegoat?
Too specific and too much focus on guilt. “Depp vom Dienst” takes shit for no reason.
I really don’t think there’s an idiomatic expression that matches up. “Whipping boy” feels closest to me, but it’s a lot more serious than “Depp vom Dienst” sounds to me.
Jerry from the TV show Parks & Recreation is the best illustration of the concept I can think of, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Gergich
Oh, I like “whipping boy”. People use “Depp vom Dienst” often, when they feel like they’re being treated unfairly (usually at work), so it’s not really about being dumb.
I think maybe a good one for this is “He’s always the butt of the joke”..??
Nice one :). One thing though… “Depp vom Dienst” is used in momentary contexts, not as a general “characterization” of someone.
Oh, I don’t think I’d picked up on that. “Whipping boy” is really a description of someone or something who’s ALWAYS the target of abuse – or maybe a better way to put it is that it’s someone/something that’s always safe and/or beneficial to criticize.
Oj, ich habe die “smell” vergessen. The smell could be enchanting. Intoxicating could also be used.
Difficult to comment on word usage – even if I had opinions on “swift service” above. The thing about English is that the language lends itself well to creative usage of words: A suggestion (especially for something fun or appealing in a decadent way) can be delicious. Being afraid of water/heights and therefore bridges can give us, “I don’t DO bridges”. u.s.w. Of course, a smell can be enchanting, mesmerizing etc. More mainstream would be “intoxicating”.
Methinks that like many languages, creative usage of a word will be perceived as lack-of-language-skills if spoken by a second-language speaker whereas a native speaker could land a Nobel Prize in literature for the same usage. Please differentiate between creative usage and just plain wrong/awkward.
What to do? The whole truly is greater than the sum of its parts: if your personality is such, and general usage of the (second)-language is on a certain level, and you show an interest in certain areas, then I believe creative use of vocabulary will accepted by most, however, if you are very conventional, lack charisma/anima, are only interested in metal-fatigue in airplane bolts or the ergonomics of leafy-vegetable washing, perhaps you may find any creative usage of vocab being corrected. That is, if anyone will speak with you at all. In the right circles, a foreign accent will certainly give you poetic license. In the wrong circles, you’ll find yourself in the dunce’s corner. Although – who cares about those circles anyway?
To quote you: “creative usage of a word will be perceived as lack-of-language-skills if spoken by a second-language speaker whereas a native speaker could land a Nobel Prize in literature for the same usage.”..
damn right!!! It’s unfair, but that’s how things are. You do a weird word order in German with perfect intonation and accent – poet.
You have an accent – “No, it should be blah blah”
What’s the dunce’s corner, btw?
Dunce’s corner is an outdated and “gruselig” form of punishment. It involves shame. When someone did something wrong at school, anything from a wrong answer to unacceptable behavior, a cone-shaped hat (called Dunce’s Cap) was placed on the student’s head and said student had to sit in a chair, in the corner, in the front end of the classroom, for everyone to see. Sort of as a “lesson” to the other students. There was also a fair amount of rapping fingers with a ruler and I dunno what else – luckily, that form of discipline is no longer practiced. When I went to school, we had detention – sitting after school for a certain amount of time. I was actually expelled from one school for dressing up as a pregnant nun for Halloween – some people just don’t have any humor.
The more idiomatic/colloquial would be: The service was prompt and friendly. The “ly” at the end of “swiftly” makes it an adverb. Dunno why this isn’t true for friendly, but friendly is an adjective. So: the SERVICE (noun, needs adjective) prompt and friendly. Swift service? Hmmm… while I can’t describe why it’s awkward, it just is. Don’t think I’ve ever heard swift service – swift makes me feel the rush of cold air a person in a hurry leaves behind. Foxes run swiftly through the woods. Sorta quick, graceful and with stealth.
The “Here’s self service” is also awkward in English: I’d say “This is a self-service restaurant.” Or, if you wanna be funny, “This is a self-service establishment”. Always funny when someone tries to use vocabulary above the level of what they are describing. Self-service = joint, establishment = fine-dining. Sorta.
Ihr ergebener Diener,
Amerikanerin
I don’t know if “swift” sounds exactly awkward to me in that context, but “prompt” is definitely way more typical. “Quick” would be fine too.
Someone else here mentioned “speedy” – didn’t think of that one, but yeah, speedy. Ok, “awkward” was perhaps not a spot-on description, but swift still feels mal-chosen. When I hear “swift” I think of The Roadrunner disappearing into a huff of smoke and a “beep beep.”
I’m definitely on board with you about “swift” being the least likely choice of those mentioned. Actually, if you asked me to describe the Roadrunner, I kind of think I’d prefer “speedy.”
Like you mentioned, “swift” has a little more of an epic feel to it (Tolkien would use it to describe Legolas) and/or a connotation of gracefulness. You might use it to describe a server in a restaurant or a particular action he/she takes, but it doesn’t fit as well to describe the overall service.
Hmmm…. I think a lot of ladies wouldn’t mind Legolas waiting on them :)
Ohhh, mal-chosen… that’s your college degree talking, isn’t it ;)?
Yep! I lett the ol’ College Degree out for a breath of fresh air on Sundays.
OH my, now that you mentioned it “Here is self service” sounds really weird to me too :D. Clear case of Denglish.
Oh, “ihre ergebene Dienerin” wäre richtiger, wenn direkt danach “Amerikanerin” kommt :)