Hello everyone,
and welcome to our German Word of the Day.
This time we will look at the meaning of:
vorschlagen
Now, if you’ve read a few entries of my (absolutely amazing and never ending) prefix verb series, you might mentally get ready for a bunch of wild, twisted meanings. But I have good news for you, because vorschlagen actually has only one meaning.
And this meaning is… drumroll…
to suggest
Suggest comes from the Latin suggerere. That is a combination of sub, which expresses the idea of under and the old Latin gerere which was about carrying, bringing and which is for instance the origin of gesture. The original sense of suggerere was pretty broad but “laying down” and idea was part of it, and that made its way into many European languages as to suggest.
German, too, has its own version suggerieren, but this one is somewhat of a false friend because suggerieren is a very subliminal way of manipulating someone into thinking something. Like, you plant a seed without the person noticing.
Anyway, now let’s get to vorschlagen and I am sure some of you know that schlagen is the German word for to beat, to punch.
If you want to stop hitting the wall in German – Join as a member!
As a member, you can study as much as you want and find lots of information you won’t find anywhere else. Not in class, not in a textbook and not Duolingo or Youtube.
You’ll also get pdf-download, progress tracking, note taking, comment notifications and all practice tools.
Already a member?
Log in here:
I’ve been laughing at your recording of “Was schlugst du vor?” for days now. Whenever I go to Germany, I’m going to find an opportunity to say that…with that exact intonation. People are going to think I’m a maniac. :D
Ich schlage dir vor, Covid Testen zu kaufen. Wann du Angst hast, kannst du immer selber zuhause Test zu machen. Ich hoffe, dass du gesund bleibst.
Sehr gut, fast 100% richtig.
Ich spreche nur etwas Deutsch, aber einige wichtige Worte kenne ich, zum Beispiel, “Schlagsahne.” Gleich denke ich, kann Mann nicht “Ich schlage die Schlagsane vor?” sage?
Kann man sagen, aber der Kontext muss ziemlich klar sein.
Ich habe eine Frage über der Übersetzung von “suggest”. Ich glaube “suggest” heißt beide vorschlagen und suggerieren, aber hat vielleicht auch andere Bedeutungen. Ich glaube vorschlagen ist nur die richtige Übersetzung, wenn man “suggest” mit “propose” ersetzen kann. z.B.
-Ich schlage vor, wir gehen morgen zum Strand.
-I suggest/propose we go to the beach tomorrow.
Aber auf Englisch, kann man auch sagen
-The artist’s use of color suggests to me exactly the feeling of wanting to eat carrots, but only having asparagus. (i.e. suggest is like “evoke” in this context)
-Die Verwendung von Farben der Künstlerin suggeriert (?) mir das genaue Gefühl, das ich bekomme wenn ich Möhren essen will, aber nur Spargel habe.
-Overwhelming scientific evidence suggests that climate change is real, but the internet thinks otherwise.
-Mächtige wissenschaftliche Beweis suggeriert/deutet dahin (?), dass Klimaänderung echt ist, aber das Internet stimmt nicht genau zu.
-Are you suggesting (i.e. insinuating) that I lied to you about my infatuation with stinky cheese?
-Hast du etwa suggeriert/behauptet/insinuiert(?), dass ich dir gelogen habe, über meiner Verliebtheit mit faulriechendem Käse?
But, a related usage would be:
-Do you honestly mean to suggest (propose) we were put here by aliens?
-Wollen Sie tatsächlich behaupten/vorschlagen (?), dass wir bei Außerirdischen hier gestellt wurden?)
Sind meine Übersetzungen OK, oder gibt es bessere? Wann würde vorschlagen klappen/nicht klappen?
Saw this and thought I’d add one more example. Mein neues Baby schl?gt vor, dass sein Vater gar kein Schlaf mehr brauchen wird.
Only because that’s what is happening for me right now. No idea if that makes complete sense or not. It is pretty early in the morning after all.
Sent from my iPhone
Bist du Papa geworden? Meinen Glückwunsch!!
– Mein neues Baby…
That sounds a little funny. Like … you’re having new babies all the time. As for “vorschlagen”, that doesn’t work here. “vorschlagen” can only be done consciously by a human brain. So the sentence would mean something like
“Me and my new baby had a meeting and my baby proposed that …”
Du hast vollkommen recht. “vorschlagen” funktioniert nur für intentionale Vorschläge von Menschen, also wie “to propose”.
Deine anderen Übersetzungen sind ziemlich gut. Nur ein paar kleine Feinheiten:
– Die Art, wie die Künstlering die Farben verwendet hat, ERZEUGT bei mir genau das Gefühl, das ich bekommen, wenn…
(gibt es so einen Satz wirklich, oder hast du dir das ausgedacht ??)
– Overwhelming evidence…
This one is weird to me because evidence doesn’t suggest. Evidence proves. Else it’s not evidence. So I’m gonna say it this way
– Zahlreiche wissenschaftliche Erkenntnisse deuten darauf hin… (suggerieren funktioniert nicht, weil es zu manipulativ klingt)
– Willst du behaupten/willst du mir unterstellen, dass ich dich was meine Liebe für Stinkekäse angeht belogen habe?
(“insinuieren” ist auch ein deutsches Wort aber das versteht nur die Intelligenzia)
– Wollen Sie tatsächlich behaupten, dass wir von Ausserirdischen auf die Erde gebracht wurden.
“Stellen” funktioniert im letzten Beispiel nicht. Und “vorschlagen” auch nicht, da es nicht um etwas geht, dass man macht.
Und noch was… “Wann würde vorschlagen klappen”… das ist nicht idiomatisch. Man würde “passen” sagen. “Klappen” benutzt man für Aktivitäten, nicht für Dinge.
I’m actually practicing HEMA. The concept of Vorschlag exists in German longsword, exemplifying the concept of initiative. Not merely being the person striking first, but the one who has seized control of the bout by acting.
Oh, nice one… I didn’t know that use but it makes perfect sense. Danke
Hello!
Erste ich möchte gratulieren vor deinen blog. Das bisher ist die beste und nützlich sprach lernen siete ich habe je gelessen. :-)
Now i change i bit to english, what i also learn (im non of them nationality), so i am amazed about your blog, einfach nur wunderbar :-)
It helps me a lot, i know ich müssen gedeichnen a lot from both but your blog just become my best”language-learning” friend :-)
Best wishes/ mit freundlichen grüsen
Peter
Aw, thanks for those nice words :). Glad you like it! One question… what do you mean with “gedeichnen”… I really couldn’t think of anything.
Auf jeden Fall viel Spaß beim Lesen und beim Lernen
Liebe Grüße aus Berlin
Edit – duh it’s “ich spielte fußball” damn iAutocorrect : )
kein problem.
I think i see the difference between the usage of “weil” and “da” now. You brought about an interesting point just there. The difference between written and spoken language for german. I always meant to ask, when you are writing german here online, is it written more informally like the spoken word, or is it strictly formal i.e if i spoke the same way i see things typed here, would people look at me like an idiot? Ive been on quite a few different sites trying to explain the differences between written and spoken, and while they set out, what they suppose to be, concrete rules, i am certain that whilst browsing online, i have seen examples of all tenses being used.
For clarity i speak specifically about verb tenses i.e past, present,perfect
E.g
1) Ich sage – present
2) ich sagte – simple past?
3) ich gesagt – ??
4) ich habe gesagt – present perfect?
i said that 3rd one because im pretty sure that i have heard it in use in actual dialog, but i cant find any reference to it online. From what i could glean from the context, it meant pretty much the same as number 2, but without the helping verb.
Was weißt du darüber? – here i go again… – For clarity i tried to say (what do you know about it/that?)
sorry im digressing, but im still very much in “sponge” mode just now.
Sorry, I totally forgot about this comment . I hope sponge mode is still on :). Although I don’t have too many interesting things to say. Differences between spoken and written are a huge topic and I can’t possibly sum it up anywhere near concise. I think the General tendencies are the same as always… spoken appears shorter and more sloppy in all regards. By the way, I just thought that it isn’t actually spoken which is “more sloppy” but rather the written language which is “more standardized”. I mean … spoken was there first, and all new things come from spoken language … but anyway… I think concrete rules are hard to tell, because it always also depends on who is speaking and the Region and s on. But one Thing I can say… German uses the “haben”-past way more in spoken language AND written language that uses the spoken register (whenever you’re personally telling someone you know about life)… so… Chat, mails to friends, Blogs… those are more spoken like… just without filler and unfinished sentences and so on.
In the south of Germany, the pretty much ALWAYS use the what I call “spoken past”
It Looks like the present perfect and there are some common underlying ideas but in German it is really more a matter of usage than semantical issues. The further North you go, the more people will tend to use the preterite
It also depends on the verb though. I have yet to write abut this, so I won’t go into that too deep here.
The only thing that no one would ever say is
nope. Maybe in some “slangs” but this definitely stands out as 100% foreign… so it is not this kind of slang that is wrong but still feels like German.
Of curse “Ich gesagt” can occur somewhere mid-sentence
Oh and then, there is the Theater… and they often skip the helper verb
Weißt du, was ich gesagt?
This is spoken too :)… but that is a whole different Story. If you think German sentence structure is crazy… well check out one of those Greek classics in Translation. I don’t know if there is even any System at all or if the just “go with the flow”… here’s my weak attempt at emulating it
Soll wirklich ich, den Göttern zu gefallen, die an meinem Busen mich genährt verraten. Wohlan, mein Zeuge dann oh Heliklos, der nachdem ein Heer allein er vernichtet, die Beute verschmäht als sei’s kein Gold, wohlan, auf das die Wahrheit dir …. whaaaaaaaattt? :D
I’m guessing my latest German sentence attempt was correct, because I don’t see any corrections?
It’s possible that I misheard or, even more possible, that it was a German speaking part of France, and maybe they do it differently. I think on balance, I prefer using the “habe geverbt” construction because it feels more rounded.
Consider –
Ich spielt fußball
Ich habe fußball gespielt
Provided they are both correct, obviously, then I prefer the second. I think it sounds better, at least, it sounds more German to me.
Im not even going to attempt to decode your last sentence :-o
I’m just about to get stuck into your monster posts on werden. Seems every time I come across difficulty in understanding a word or concept in German, you’ve already got a post on it.
Vielen dank und weiter so! Deine artikel sind wunderbar.
Ja, dein Satz war perfekt ! (“Was weißt du darüber”)…
as for the example with Fußball spielen. To me the real past would sound incredibly stilted. Like .. you want to sound really really educated. But to a person in Kiel it might be normal, I don’t know. I think it is a good idea to stick with the haben-version for those arbitrary words that have a regular real past. And you’re totally right, that it is good training for the German structure of verb final. If that already feels proper to you, then that is a sign that you’re really on your way to fluency :)
No, not at all. For me the explanations you are giving are like gold, it’s the subtleties and nuances that make a huge difference, so it’s a great help to have them pointed out. I guess if one day I could have a German conversation and not stand out like a weirdo, apart from probably the accent :D, then I will have made a real achievement.
I understand your explanation of the sie as a finite quantity “they” pointer. It makes sense.
So to revise the sentence based on our discussions, I will address you less formally, slightly correct the grammar and be more specific.
Here goes –
Ich würde vorschlagen, dass du mehr Posts schreibst, da deine früheren Artikeln toll warst.
I think I messed the ending up but I’m not sure why. Couldn’t decide on the conjugation of the verb. Is da and Weil interchangeable in this context?
As a side, can I fire corrections at your English when I see mistakes? Not that there are many of course. I must admit that your understanding of English is very good. I haven’t dumbed down any of my phrasing to accommodate you being a foreign speaker and none of it seems to have been lost. ( man I wish I could explain that in German)
Still, like my id says – “übung macht den meister” or I think “es ist noch kein meister vom himmel gefallen” also works.
I love knowing phrases like that, maybe you should do some posts on idioms :D I’d love to hear your take on the literal translations of them, and how you think they came about.
Almost. you’re right that you weren’t right with the conjugation.
…, da deine früheren Artikel toll waren.
Articles is plural so that’s why. As for “da” vs “weil”. They are quite interchangeable but I find “da” the better choice here (we’re talking written register… spoken German is another story). The thing is that the because-clause can actually answer two questions
Why should I write more?
Why are you suggesting I write more?
In case 1 it refers to the clause that immediately preceds it. It is a sub-sub-level sentence. In case 2 it refers to the first clause and I could move it around
Weil die Artikel toll sind, würde ich vorschlagen, dass du mehr schreibst.
And for that “da” is better because “weil” doesn’t span very far (in writing). It reasons for whatever has been said right before it. “Da” has a longer reach. With “da” I would interpret the sentence as case 2 whereas with “weil” it sounds like a case 1… now, of course the semantical difference between those two cases is close to zero but yeah… if there is a difference between “da” and “weil” to me it is the “range”…
And yes, please… point out my mistakes when you come across one :). I hate to read texts with mistakes in them but I also hate to proofread
No it’s ok. You are welcome to guard the integrity of your wonderful language. We are lazy in English and have allowed our language to become deteriorated and abused. Thank you for your detailed analysis and feedback. It is always the best learning experience to try (and fail), before being corrected constructively.
The sentence I thought I wrote in English was
I suggest that you should write more blog posts, because they are great. I was trying to use the second sie in “da sie toll sind” to mean they, I.e the blog-posts. Thanks for the tip on the verb placement, I feel like I can handle 2 verbs in a single sentence with no clauses but when there are clauses or more verbs then I have trouble placing them ( and reading them). Mostly I don’t know to which words in the sentence they belong.
For example –
Ich habe meine Hände gewaschen.
Also thanks for the tip on the verbal weight of sollen. This is for me a very difficult part of German, where words have the same translation, but don’t carry the same linguistic weight. It is therefore quite easy to sound overbearing/impolite/rude quite easily.
In English should carries a moderately friendly undertone. “You Should” sounds like “it’s recommended, but not obligatory”. If I wanted to force it, I would say “you must” or “you have to”. Both of those kinda feel like mussen to me.
Okay I will use du from now on, I’m just following the rules, or so I thought. Mostly the reason I use sie however is because it’s easier for me to remember the infinitive of the verb, than to conjugate it. Point taken, I will learn more du conjugations.
Vielen dank.
Haha… yeah “du” so (learn du-constructions) :). As for the sentence… “sie” as in “die Blog-Posts”… of course. I could have picked that up. The thought didn’t even cross my mind though and so that is actually quite an interesting realization for me. Once the polite “Sie” has been established it has apparently has quite a strong gravitational field that pulls any following “sie” toward it. Like… I thought of a few other examples and my first impulse is always to feel addressed if the grammar doesn’t make it crystal clear. And also, I think the pronoun “sie” works best if there is a finite amount of things to refer to… otherwise it will sound odd.
– Ich habe ein paar Ideen und sie sind gut.
That’s odd, because the set “ideas” is not defined. I’d say “sie alle” or just “alle” to make the reference. When the set is defined (definite article), then it works.
– Er hat mir die Ideen erzählt und sie sind gut.
We still don’t know the amount of ideas but someone somewhere does… god, I hope that makes sense. So… the pronoun “sie” works if there has been a “die” or “meine Eltern” or something before but it doesn’t really work after “some”. And then, it is also weird to use “sie” together with present tense, if the things don’t exist yet.
– Ich will ein paar Fotos machen, weil sie gut sind.
The pictures aren’t taken yet, so I don’t know if they are good or not. That makes the phrasing weird and that is not my being overly precise this time. Context makes it clear of course but I think in German people would opt for the more precise phrasing.
– Ich will ein paar Posts schreiben, weil die, die ich normalerweise schreibe, gut sind.
or “Weil sie meistens gut werden.”. I guess there is at least some truth to the stereotype that German is always so literal and specific.
And then there is “should”… I should have picked that up too. That would be “sollten” instead of “sollen” :) but there, the usage and feel is about the same.
I think I would move the conditional forward though and say
– Ich würde vorschlagen, dass du mehr Posts schreibst,…
– I’ suggest that you write more posts…
Ahhhhh… I hope I’m not sucking out all the fun of learning by dissecting the sentence so much. I just get washed away by thoughts when it comes to phrasing things :)
Hey Emanuel,
So with regards to the grammar of referring to nouns that were previously stated…
Words can be referenced using only a 3rd person personal pronoun if the word has already been stated previously while being preceded be a “der-word” (i.e. der/die/das dieser, welcher, jeder, solcher, etc.) or an “ein-word” (i.e. possesive adjectives, eine, keine)
Otherwise if this word is not preceded by a “der-word” or an “ein-word”, you could refer to it using a der/die/das word based on its gender and whether it’s singular or plural, or you could refer to it using a 3rd personal pronoun with another word (in your examples, alle or meistens) to clarify what you’re saying.
I’m pretty sure I understand this concept for the most part, but might as well over-analyze to make sure :D
Also, with regards to how “should” and “sollen” are used, this is a comparison that has interested me. In English, should is frequently used like an encouragement. Like if I’m talking to a friend: “Some of my friends and I are going out tonight, you should come with.” It’s not like I’m necessarily “erwarten” him to come with me. It’s just an encouraging invitation. But in German: “Meine Freunde und ich gehen heute Nacht aus, du sollst mitkommen.” sounds more demaning, correct? I guess this is the situation to use that tone-down “doch”… “Meine Freunde und ich gehen heute Nacht aus, komm doch mit.
Well, it is not all that strict actually… I think in many cases where there is an “ein” word I would go for the d-pronoun…
– Ich habe ein Buch von Blah Blah gelesen und das/es war echt gut.
Both work. My pick would be “das” but someone else might prefer “es”. Also, you’d use “die” if there is a choice between two things the reference could refer to
– Mark hat einen Bruden und DER ist ein guter Koch.
This is clear. The brother is the good cook.
– Mark hat einen Bruder und er ist ein guter Koch.
In this case, it is clear that Mark is a good cook. It’s not always that black and white though.
And there is more. You’d also rather use a d-pronoun if the there is an in-sentence subject change.
– Ich war gestern bei meiner Schwester und die hat gesagt, dass….
I would find “sie” odd here, because we’re connecting two main sentences with “und” but the “sie” makes it feel very detached… kind of robotic. The “die” through its pointiness creates more connection.
And I’m sure there is more, so bottom line… this is language in use and you should pick it up over time :). I think I can’t come up with a comprehensive set of rules and if I could you wouldn’t want to learn them because they’re too many.
Some people say using d-pronouns for people is impolite or condescending… well, no… it is just not that simple.
Now for “sollen”…yes, you have the right feeling about that.
– Du sollst mitkommen.
That basically sounds like:
– Some entity demands your coming with.
And older sister could say that to the younger sister and the person who wants it done is mom. If you said that to me to invite me somewhere I would be tempted to ask “Says who?”
– Du solltest mitkommen.
This is different in that it suggests consequences… everything from “you shouldn’t be at home cause aliens will smash the house” to “you’ll be missing out on this very very very hot someone who’s going to join us”. If you said that to invit eme along, I’d be tempted to say “Or else?”
So… here are a few ways to do it.
– Komm doch mit. … inviting, encouraging, I don’t know why but it sounds a bit girlish, too
– Komm mal mit… this is appropriate after the first request has been met with a “no”. So you start bringing up arguments and then you could say that in between.
– Und du kommst mit… that is very definite. You could say that to a friend who has been at home for days lamenting the love lost.
and then there are of course the questions:
– Kommste mit?
– Bock, mitzukommen?
– Willste mitkommen?
Im just leaving this quick comment so that i can follow this post/blog on my newly created wordpress account. Im sorry but i didn’t know how to associate my previous activity so thought this would help. The above comment was by me :D
I’ll just answer so you get a notification… so, thank you so so much for your nice words. Your words were a real boost of motivation and a good reminder to keep things short and light… I think my posts have become more “wordy” over the last year :)
And here comes the detailed feedback for your German.
ich schlage vor, dass Sie sollen mehr Blogs schreiben, da sie toll sind
Grammar’s first and the only mistake there was that you should have moved the word “sollen” to the end of the clause…
…, dass Sie mehr blogs schreiben sollen,…
because a dass-sentence is a side sentence and the verb wants to be as far away of dass as possible.
And now for the other things. First of, please don’t call me “Sie”. It weirds me out. Sure, you don’t know me, or my age but on the web the “Sie” sounds SUPER formal. It may be appropriate on a medic discussion board but for light things, “du” will be fine. Okay… I guess I shouldn’t talk for everyone but for me it is fine.
Second, the word “sollen” is out of place here. “sollen” is very strong and demanding.. like an order in a way, and the word “vorschlagen” in its capacity as a suggestion does imply a light “sollen” anyway so strictly speaking you’re telling me I “should be obliged to write ” :) That is a super nitpicky thing to say and people do use redundance like that every day but
…, dass du mehr Blogs schreibst,…
is way better.
Then, since I nitpick, it should be Blog-Posts or “Artikel”. I was actually confused for a second … like “Why should I write more blogs, about what language or topic?” And then finally
… , da Sie toll sind.
I guess that is more or less “You’re great/amazing.” but a German would not say that if it just refers to one particular facet of a person. I mean… I guess a mom would say in surprise upon seing that the husband did ALL the chores, did the homework with the kids AND bought two musical tickets for Wicked
“Oh du bist einfach toll, Schatz.”
But in everyday life, Germans are not that hearty and positive and they would be all specific about it :)
, weil die Artikel toll sind.
Now I said a lot but that was really just nitpicking and my being super pedantic about language. You can ask my girlfriend. When I went through her bachelor paper with her, I wouldn’t let one single sentence go by without finding something to complain about :D
You had just one grammar mistake, while the rest of the structure and stuff was perfect. Kompliment und wenn du mal wieder eine gründliche Analyse von einem Satz brauchst – immer her damit (bring it on.) Viele Grüße
Im surprised there is not more comments on such a great article. I’ve been reading all over your site the last few weeks and i’m totally engrossed in it… really i cant stop reading it. What a great blog and what a fantastic teacher you are. I love the way you described the formation of this wotd. BAM eat that… Im still snickering about it now whilst trying to write this comment. Your sense of humor and writing style makes the words/grammer a lot easier to learn and also stick better afterwards.
Here comes the german part (I always try to write a little each time)
ich schlage vor, dass Sie sollen mehr Blogs schreiben, da sie toll sind
Hope that made sense. Please be reminded that if it did make sense then it was because you helped me to “feel” the language more than i have ever been capable of before. And if it didn’t it was only because i wasn’t listening properly :D
Hey, sehr Dank! Meine Deutsch ist noch sehr schwach. Aber ich muss es sagen, dass diese(r?) Blog sehr gut ist.
Danke für das Kompliment! … es ist der Blog also dieser :)
So I am reading this book today and I realize… hey, they say it is “das Blog”… something that feels just plain wrong to me.
However, actually das would make a lot of sense. Blog is short for weblog which in German would be Web-Logbuch and Buch ist “das”. Also, it is “die Webseite” und “das Tagebuch”. And still, to me masculine feels right and das doesn’t. I have been thinking about why. One reason could be that it is “der Artikel” but that would imply maybe too much of conscious reflection… so I think it is because blog sounds almost like “Block” and it is “der Block” (the block, the notepad) … not the greatest reason but hey, sound does matter a lot lot lot :)
Here is an article about the issue… it is all in German but you could give it a try:
https://www.scilogs.de/wblogs/blog/sprachlog/sprachgebrauch/2011-08-25/das-blog-ist-tot-es-lebe-der-blog
They say, that it used to be “das Blog” but nowadays a vast majority prefers “der Blog” and thinks of Blog as masculine. They also mention the very same reason of it sounding like “der Block”
“officially” you can use either version. However, the trend indicates that der is going to win.