Hello everyone,
and welcome to our German Word of the Day and today it’s time for another episode of:
Words – married and in love
In those specials we look at combinations of words that are used very frequently and that mean… well somewhat more than just the combination. Last time we looked at was für, a really potent couple… sem… uh.. sementically (oh god, that doesn’t sound right).
And here are our words for today:
- gehen and um
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
Those 2 words can be combined in not 1, not 2 but 3 different ways and we’ll look at all of them today. That way, you’ll learn to thoroughly hate German while I get to procrastinate the god damn drag that is explaining the word mal… oh mal…
In a daze for days,mulling over the malice
oh malleable mal.
(this Haiku was brought to you by: Dictionary ®, Helping people show off since 1876)
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“It is really rare these days and pretty much only ever used in combination with ghosts.”
Or the Kommissar in that song by Falco.
Very true!
Hey Emanuel, I landed in this page looking up the word Umgang (noun), which has a lot of translations. ‘Handling’ being one of them, which works seem to work with some of the versions of gehen um here. The other translations, maybe not so much? Any thoughts on connecting those dots?
The noun is based on the separable version of ‘umgehen’, the prefix verb. Not ‘gehen um’ as a combination of ‘gehen’ with a preposition.
You can find the verb with its meanings here:)
https://yourdailygerman.com/meaning/umgehen-3/
Stimmt. But in addition to ‘handling’ and ‘circuit,’ Leo provides several words having to do with acquaintance and commerce. While I see some connections between the various nouns it is providing, the connection to the verb is a little more tenuous to me than ‘handling’ is. Maybe I just haven’t thought about it from the correct point of view.
I just had a look at the Leo list and they REALLY should cluster them semantically AND by prefix verb type :).
Most of the translations they offer are about the inseparable ‘umgehen’, which is about ‘going around’ in a sense of avoiding.
https://yourdailygerman.com/meaning/umgehen-2/
But then, they mix the separable umgehen in and the only way to know is to look at the participle.
The noun der Umgang is based on the separable umgehen.
The noun die Umgehung (stress on GEH) is based on the inseparable umgehen.
If you have specific translations of the nouns that you can’t connect back to the verbs let me know and I’ll see if I can mind-yoga my way to one :)
I thought I read somewhere that while umGEHen means going around something, UMgehen can mean going through something .
Yup, that’s correct.
But that’s the verb “umgehen” while here, we’re talking about “gehen” with the preposition “um”. I know, confusing :)
I just realized I was thinking of umFAHRen, avoiding/ driving around something , and UMfahren which I believe means driving into something ( like a fence). Oops… thank you for answering
Mir ist ein kleiner Fehler aufgefallen:
In diesem Satz geht es nicht um Lincoln, sonst den Film. :)
Danke :)!!
I understand from this post and some of the comments that, since we have “es” hanging around, we can’t have a second subject. Cool!
“In my question about it” :) …is there much logic to the initial in/bei preposition choices? Or is it vibes only? Are other prepositions used or are these the main two for this construction? Some examples from your article:
In dem Film geht es um…
In diesem Artikel geht es um…
Bei der nächsten Frage geht es um…
Im Finale geht es um…
Beim Meeting ging es um…
In other words, why is Meeting and Frage paired with bei, while Film, Artikel, and Finale are paired with in?
“in/im” and “bei(m)” are the main ones, for sure, but it has nothing to do with “gehen um” but instead depends on the object that follows.
– Auf der Konferenz geht es um…
That’s the only example I could think of right now, but there are probably more.
As for why “in” or “bei”, I just noticed that you can swap in “in” for “bei” in both examples, and it wouldn’t really change.
“bei” refers to the “object” as a whole, “in” refers to its content.
Thank you! That last bit about bei -> object, in -> content is particularly helpful.
In general, I feel like “bei” doesn’t get its fair share of attention in some of the grammar texts I’ve seen. You might call it bei erasure (note: this is a niche pun and I apologize to anyone shaking their head at its dumbness).
I don’t get it :D
“bi erasure” is a term that refers to when (dumb) people pretend that bisexuality doesn’t exist or try to explain it away…like if you go to a museum of some male historical figure that was married to a woman at some point, then later lived with (and wrote love letters to…and went to Mykonos with…) what the museum describes as their “long-term male friend.”
“bei erasure” is when I come across a use of bei that doesn’t seem to match what I know about it so far, possibly due to a conspiracy among German grammar teachers to keep secrets and erase explanations of it in their texts
*Goethe, big G, it’s me… we’ve been found out… some Mateo guy on a German learning blog spilled the tea on… no, I don’t know how he knows, but he knows…. is it time for plan G?
I knew it!!!
Returning to this topic.
Just wanted to check: Ich gehe um den See. This is gehe with a preposition right?
And if it was the separable version (without preposition) it would be “ich gehe den see um” (perhaps i’d only say that if i was a ghost but i just want to be sure on the grammar).
If ich gehe um den See is an acceptable construction why have rumgehen or drumrum gehen? These emphasise having to go around something that blocks your path?
And while i’m here doesn’t the darum / drum in drumherumgehen seem a bit superfluous to you?
Also i wanted to brush up on all the stuff around directions and place – you know like rein /drin
ich gehe nach oben / ich gehe rauf that kind of stuff. Did you have an article on this please?
Yes, it’s “gehen”+”um” as a preposition.
And no, “Ich gehe den See um.” is not a thing. This separable “umgehen” does take a location but not a direct object, and it generally means “to haunt (at that location)”
Why “rumgehen um” .. well, why not.
German generally likes using prefixes to indicate as sense of direction, and sometimes it also does it even though there’s no real need.
“drumrumgehen”, yes, it’s all doubled up, but the vibe, man, the vibe.
No, I do not have one article that would cover all of that. The best fit is probably the one about “hinter vs hinten”, but that one desperately needs a do-over.
Cool, thanks for the answers. So lets pretend i’m a ghost and i want to haunt the lake and its surroundings. That would be “ich gehe um am See” ?
Spot on. Even better “Ich gehe am See um.”
dankeschön!
Lieber E,
I was searching /googling for “umgehend” and it linked near the top of the page to this spectacular site – how about that!
Despite being in B for ~200+ years, I didn’t know the “sofort” meaning; it seemed that way in context, but ya never know. I suppose if you are to avoid something, you’d better make it fast.
Had never seen this article before – already 8+ years old – wow!
It will be interesting in 50, 100+ years to look back and see how the language changes, if meanings from today deviate much, or if the webz and whatever follows will keep things locked down much more than the olde pre-netz, pre-hyper-media dayz.
Ika wünsche Dir einen schönen bewölkten Sonntag.
Great article!! Thanks. Concerning the definition of “deal with” can sich befassen mit be a synonym? For example are these two sentences the same:
Ich kann mich mit der Neuigkeiten nicht befassen.
Ich kann mit der Neuigkeiten nicht umgehen.
thanks again
Seems like it in the dictionary but no – “sich befassen” is about “dealing” in the sense of “taking action” or “looking into something”, not about “coping” or “handling”.
Your example with “befassen” sounds like you’re too busy to deal with it, for example.
Hope that helps.
Hello, first of all i want to thank for your awesome website because that has help me alot.
I have a question
When we should use beim/an with geht es um? Is it wrong that we dont use them with it?
Both can work depending on what they connect.
– Worum geht es am Montag?
– What’s “it about” on Monday?
– Beim Yoga geht es nicht ums Gewinnen.
– “in/with” Yoga it’s not about winning.
Does that help?
Actually i don’t understand why should we use beim or an with geht es um?
I don’t understand your question then. What’s unclear about the two examples that I gave?
I found my answer, in german we could not use 2 subjects in one sentence
For example: meeting geht es darum, wie….
And then its wrong
We should say: Beim meeting geht es darum, wie…
Yea?
Ah, now I see your point. Yes, the subject is “es”. If you want to add the event then, you’d use “beim”.
Schöner Artikel. Dieser Satz gab mir den Anstoß, mehr über “umgehen” zu lernen.
Männer gehen anders mit ihrer Gesundheit und mit Krankheiten um als Frauen.
Ich habe 2 Fragen, von denen ich hoffe, dass Sie mir damit nachsichtig sein können:
1. Ich gehe davon aus, dass dieser Satz die Verwendung “to treat” oder “to handle” verwendet?
2. Warum steht das Vergleichende (als Frauen) am Ende? Ich dachte, die Vorsilbe “um” sollte das letzte sein?
Vielen Dank
1) Ich würde es als “have a different approach” übersetzen, vielleicht, aber “treat” ist auch okay. Es ist aber NICHT “to treat” im Sinne von “treat a disease”.
2) Vergleiche kann man auf beide Arten machen, und bei so einem langen Satz ist es natürlicher, es hinten ran zu hängen.
In meinem Artikel über “Comparisons” findest du mehr dazu, und die Logik dahinter :).
Hi, there. I’m really new to learning German, so a lot of this is over my head, but I find your style so engaging that I enjoy reading it anyway, and I know I’ll be coming back to these articles as my learning grows.
One tiny correction of your English, if I may – “The company has gained a lot of *costumers*” You mean “customers” – “costumers” are the people who design/build costumes for plays and movies. I’ve seen anglophones, typing fast, make the same mistake – haha. It’s one of those errors spellcheck can’t catch.
Thanks again for your lively and informative articles.
Hhaha, oh that’s a funny error, actually. Thanks for pointing it out.
Since you’re a beginner… have you checked out the “essentials”-section of my grammar course?
That’ll give you a pretty good foundation, and it even has little quizzes. Well, some at least. I’m currently updating it.
Yeah the emphasis part confuses me. UMgehen oder umGehen. I understand it’s about being more loud but that increase intensity of pronounceing. I guess I need an audio
I’ll add audio to this one next week. Post by post working through the list :)
Great post as always!! thank you so much!
Gerne :)
Hallo Emanuel,
Erstens lass ich mich bei dir dafür bedanken, dass du dieses fantastische Blog geschrieben hast! Ich lerne erst seit ein paar Monaten Deutsch, und während dieser Zeit ist dein Blog echt hilfreich gewesen und außerdem total lustig!
Bezüglich der Übersetzung deines Beispiels:
“Ich umgehe den See”
würde ich wahrscheinlich als Englischmuttersprachlerin sagen:
“I give the lake a wide berth”
I’m no linguist and it’s probably a bit colloquial, but this phrasing is much more avoidant than simply “going around” the lake, while still retaining the idea orienting your own movement around the lake as a central point.
Cool, vielen Dank für das liebe Feedback und auch für “giving a birth”. Ich habe das noch nie gehört, aber so wie du es beschrieben hast klingt es ziemlich perfekt.
a berth is a boat or ship’s space at a dock, or a bunk / bed inside a ship or even a train.
if you cut a wide berth, you’re curving, maybe swerving, and definitely keeping distance between you and someding else.
i see this was five plus years ago, so if you happened to give birth back then.. well, i hope you found a good Kita spot and a most awesome Grundschule
Hahaha, no the only thing I birthed was a typo :)
I’m so glad I read this article! Es geht um seems like the perfect phrase for introducing a song to an audience. Such as: “das nachstes Lied geht es um einen Man wer zu viel trinkt”.
Yap, this is like THE verb to introduce topics. Some minor corrections to your sentence:
– Das nächste Lied geht es um…
This is wrong because you have two subjects here (das nächste Lied, es). The most proper phrasing would be
– Im nächsten Lied geht es um…
But I feel like many singer would actually make the song the subject, so they’d leave out the “es”
– Das nächste Lied geht um…
Not prefect high German but it makes the song sound more important.
And then…
– … um einen Mann wer zu viel…
Instead of “who (wer)” German would use “der” here as a relative pronoun.
Hallo Emanuel,
es gibt noch ein Word, das um ‘umgehen’ geht. :-) Ich habe es heute gelesen und im Wörterbuch die Bedeutung gefunden:
umgehend = sofort
Beispiel (von meiner Email-Posteingang): Wir werden uns umgehend bei Ihnen melden sobald wir nähere Informationen erhalten.
Üblich ist “-d” auf Deutsch wie “-ing” auf Englisch, aber ich verstehe nicht die Verwandtschaft zwischen umgehen und umgehend. Verstehst du warum “umgehend” bedeutet “sofort”?
Grüße,
Barratt
Sehr interessante Frage! Ich habe nachgeguckt, und zuerst wurde das im Kontext mit Post verwendet.
– mit umgehender Post
Die Postkutsche kommt, und nimmt direkt wieder was mit. Das ist “umgehend”. Und dann wurde die Bedeutung nach und nach generalisiert. Hoffe, das hilft.
Hi Emanuel, could you comment a bit on the use of “herum” with “um”? From what I could gather from some German friends, it seems adding “herum” is always correct; the only difference is whether the sentence would sound better:
Ich gehe um den See (herum)
That’s a tough question. I think iit largely comes down to what’s idiomatic and it varies from context to context. I’d say that the “herum”-less version generally sounds a little fancier but it might also sound dated. But it can also sound like there is something missing.
-Um das Haus herum stehen viele Bäume.
– Around the house, there are standing many trees.
I wouldn’t skip it in this case.
In your example, I feel like “herum” stresses that you make precisely one turn, and it sounds kind of determined.
I’d say when in doubt, throw a “herum” or “rum” in there. Not the most helpful aadvice but I really don’t think there’s any logic behind it.
So ein hilfreicher Artikel wie immer!
Darf ich fragen, was denn der Unterschied ist, zwischen ‘gehen um’ und ‘sich handeln um’ ? Die beiden bedeuten ‘to be about’ , oder?
Danke im Voraus für Ihre Mühe. :)
Nein, nicht ganz…. “sich handeln um” bezieht sich auf das Objekt selbst.
– Bei diesem Buch handelt es sich um den ersten Science Fiction Roman aller Zeiten.
Im Grunde ist das nichts anderes als
– Dieses Buch ist der erste Science Fiction….
“Gehen um” ist über das Thema des Buches.
Die beiden Formulierungen überschneiden sich ein bisschen bei Fragen.
– Worum handelt es sich beim sogenannten Vorsteuerabzug?
– What IS the input tax reduction?
– Worum geht es beim Vorsteuerabzug?
– What’s input tax reduction about?
Hier will man wissen, was es ist und wie es funktioniert und da sind die Fragen recht ähnlich. Aber im Kontext von Filmen oder kann man die nicht vertauschen….
– In diesem Film geht es um einen Boxer.
– This movie is about a boxer.
– Bei diesem Film handelt es sich um einen Boxer.
– This movie is a boxer.
okay… es gibt aber noch “handeln von” ohne “sich”… das ist dann ein bisschen so wie “gehen um”.
Ich hoffe, das macht’s ein bisschen klarer
Moin, teacher!
Say, this is probably not the right place to ask, but as you slightly touch the subject, I have a question with *gehen*. Specifically, I’ve been told to use *Ich gehe ZU Intersport/Aldi/…* but *Ich gehe IN die Kneipe/das Cafe/…*. I gather that the difference is basically whether you sit there or not, is it correct? I mean, *Ich gehe ZU Sonia*, but it’s not for einkaufen, and on the other hand, *Ich gehe in die Stadt*… :-) And what would work with *die Uni*? Gehe ich zur Uni, oder in die Uni?
Thanks very much Prof! Your incredibly efficient expertise is always a blessing.
M.
No, sitting has nothing to do with it. The thing is that persons and things you cannot really enter are “reached” via “zu”. Prime examples are persons. Persons have names. And brands are names as well… sometimes it’s quite obvious.
– Ich gehe nicht zu McDonalds.
So… you basically just saying that you go to the chain. It doesn’t say much about the specific location.
– Ich bin im Aldi am Alexanderplatz.
This is fine.
Now, cafés also have names. But they are just one café. So if your cafe is named “espresso” we’d say
– Ich gehe ins “Espresso”.
because it is clearly the veneu. But for Starbucks… well, it’s “zu”… because I am going to the concept, and you don’t actually know my location. You just know what I see when I look around.
As for “Uni”… both work and I don’t see a difference. It’s personal preference or just simply “whim” pretty much
I just have a small question, when using “geht es um” as “to be about”
“Der Film geht es um…”
would “handelt von” also work here also? Or how is this used?
Danke!
Nah… it is either
– Im Film geht es um…
or
– Der Film geht um…
You can only have one subject, one thing that goes around the topic :). The first phrasing (with “es” ) is the better choice most of the time.
– Der Film handelt von…
that works too and means the same. The only difference is that “gehen um” is more general. “Handeln von” is about telling a story, “gehen um” can also be the topic of an upcoming meeting with your boss.
– In dem Meeting geht es um die Quartalszahlen.
– The meeting is going to be about…
“Handeln von” wouldn’t work here because a meeting is not a story, not even remotely. The meeting just is. We cannot read it or consume it in some other way. In past tense it isn’t as bad anymore because the meeting has taken place and there is a story to tell about it but I would mark it as bad style if I was copy editing something.
Hope that helps :)
Oops.. natürlich ist es ,,Im Film.” Ich habe mich verguckt :P Danke für die Erklärung, sie ist bestimmt hilfreich.