Hello everyone,
And welcome back to you German Word of the Day. And today, we’ll actually do a kind of recap session about
The meaning and use of “trotzdem”
Now some of you might be like “Wait, I feel like you have a lesson about that, right?”.
And yes, I do have a lesson about trotzdem and the differences to trotz and obwohl.
But it was already quite old and definitely needed a little do-over. I’ve done that recently and I also added a second proper learning quiz there.
But most of you were not going to see that, so I decided that this might actually make for a nice refresher episode, summer camp style :).
So, today I’ll give you a quick recap about trotzdem and its translations and then we’ll do a learning quiz where you have to say whether or not trotzdem would actually fit in a given context. And when I say learning quiz, I mean that each answer comes with a little explanation.
So if you’re ready, let’s jump right in.
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Thank you Emanuel and members who are helping people like me access this website with a free membership. I am really grateful, hope to learn well and practice a lot.
Bitte, why is außer dass two words?
I’m not sure I understand the question.
“außer, dass…” is two words because.. well.. it’s two words.
Not every article gets contracted together with “außer”.
“außerdem” is one word, maybe that’s what is confusing you. It used to be two words, but eventually got fused into one. But there are still the normal two word combinations too – außer den, außer die, außer der (except the).
Also I always think of trotzdem as translated as ‘nevertheless’ works much better.
I thought so too at first but ‘nevertheless’ seems to imply a much less direct contrast: Nevertheless I’m in love with you / Despite that I’m in love with you.
Oh that’s interesting.
What would the version with “nevertheless” mean here? Does it go in the direction of “at the end of the day, all things considered”?
Got 100% for the 1st time on one of your quizzes! And after 5 years of lurking I became a Life Time Member today I’m currently in Kusel, Germany visiting my son and German daughter-in-law and they are looking to buy a house. Time to get more serious with my language learning. This trip it has been amazing how much better I can understand the signs and conversations!
Super, Glückwunsch!!
Jetzt geht’s also richtig los :)
Oh, good for you, xenarose!
Kusel is a charming little town in the Pfalz (“Palatinate” in English??) and is well known for one of our fabled folk songs “Ein Staedtchen liegt im Pfaelzerwald im Tal so wunderschoen.”.
As a music lover, Kusel is famous as the birthplace of the late, great tenor Fritz Wunderlich, taken from us too young.
He had a beautiful voice. There must have been a lot of work that went into what he did, but he made it sound easy. I remember reading that he found more time to practice by just doing it wherever. In the garden, or when he was developing pictures, or something like that. I love his version of Die Schöne Müllerin.
Schubert, Mozart’s “Die Zauberfloete” etc… Little he couldn’t sing. Wagner performances I can’t recall.
He never forgot his hometown roots and Kusel was never far from his heart! Pity I’ve never been, yet it’s not that far from Dortmund by car.
Yes, and also a great Nessun Dorma in German. Der Jahrhundert-Tenor aus der Pfalz, indeed. It would have been interesting to hear a lyrical voice like his in Wagner.
All right, this discussion made me think back to when I got my degree in Musicology. The topic of my aural exam was counter-tenor singers, and at that time I was a “fan” of Andreas Scholl. Now I thought he did also sing Nessun Dorma, but looks like he didn’t and it’s not a counter tenor piece. But here’s him with a different one.
He’s the best counter imo because he sounds so clean and innocent without the pretentious vibrato and tremolo all that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxhsCxT3y2w
Team 10/10, albeit on the second attempt (a few days after the initial, raw, untutored 8/10). More importantly, the quiz felt more straightforward (ie, not “boobytrapped” at all) the second time through.
Learning has been achieved!! This sparks joy.
Wie Geld auf dem Kondo…
Lololololololol, holy shit, this is my favorite pun this year!! XD
…..oder im KontoLOL Ueber beides kann man sich freuen:-)
Way back, we learned ‘nichtsdestotrotz’ in school; despite that, don’t think I’ve ever heard it spoken nor seen it again.
I did read some thoughts below on ‘Zweifel’ – which when paired with a refined arrogance, yinyang us fwd in language learning.
Speaking of self-doubt, wildly off-topic, I am thinking of words ending in “fel” and can only think of two (die Tafel, die Kartoffel) that are f-gendered.
There must be more, though I am rather unsure.
‘nichtsdestotrotz’ – people do use that some time, primarily at the beginning of a sentence, but it’s always on “purpose”. So you CHOSE to use this over “trotzdem”. Maybe just because it’s a funny word to use. The meaning is the exact same (for those reading this who don’t know).
I could think of die Waffel and die Fallafel but I think most “-el” words are der indeed.
Congrats on ob taining your Phony degree by the way. You’re now qualified for Starbuck’s.
I think my natural urge in a couple of these examples, and where appropriate, would be to use an “obwohl” version on translation—probably mentally trying to avoid the awkward sounding genitive. For example:
* Regardless of the hefty prices I would recommend the restaurant.
So instinctively I’d probably say “Obwohl die Preise heftig sind, ich würde das Restaurant empfehlen.”
BTW While not wrong, I think it’s much more common to begin a sentence with “Although…”. rather than “Though…” The latter sounds a little stuffy or pompous to my ear.
Good urge!
The Genitive does make it feel a little clunky for masculine and neuter because of the “-s”. For feminine things, it’s much more smooth.
Trotzdem, Danke.
That`s usually how I use Trotzdem.
That sounds like you’re not really satisfied but say thanks anyways. Like… you’re asking in a store if they have cake left and they check and say “No” and you say “Trotzdem danke”.
Genau!
“Zum Trotz” = inspite of, despite, to spite
The preposition “trotz” used not as a noun but as a relationship word is normally used with the Genitive case, e.g. “Trotz seines schlechten Benehmens wurde das Kind von seiner Mutter nicht bestraft.”
“TrotzDEM” using the Dative reflects an older usage.
Endlich habe ich 10/10 gekriegt. Bestes Quiz aller Zeiten!
I just wanted to say a heartfelt thank you to everyone who made it possible for me to join this course. I’m from a country that currently faces financial and political restrictions, and I’m not able to pay, but thanks to your generosity, I now have access and can finally start learning German properly.
I’m truly grateful for the support and kindness of this community, it means a lot more than you might think.
Thank you, Emanuel, and thank you to everyone who contributed to help people like me.
You’re making a real difference.
Willkommen und viele Grüße!
9 out of 10!
I agree with you that trotzdem is taught too late: I was taught about it at the end of B1, while obwohl is usually taught at A2. It’s also easier to use since it’s an adverb.
I don’t remember the last time I used obwohl in German, nor although in English, nor its French equivalent in French (“malgré que” ou “bien que”), whereas I regularly use trotzdem in German, nevertheless in English and “quand même” or “cependant” in French.
Interesting, I never thought about this but I think you’re actually right.
When I (re)learned French, I of course looked up trotzdem and obwohl right away but I think I rarely ever saw “margé que” in the wild. “bien que” was more common but “quand même” definitely would be the most common one I feel like.
And I think it’s the same for “obwohl” in daily life. It’s more common than “malgré que” but you kind of have to plan your sentence a bit while “trotzdem” is easy to just throw in.
Very useful exercise, thanks.
Hello,
Great recap and great quiz! Some typos:
“and it’s translations” (and its translations)
“mothertongue” (mother tongue)
As for my result, I got 8 out of 10, but one was because I was distracted and said yes because there was despiteness, but trotzdem was wrong… duh…
But in Q8, the hint threw me, you have “Ich gebe mir echt Mühe, und ___ ich kann mir irgendwie keine Artikel merken. Now, would the use of trotzdem not entail ich and kann to swap places?
Bis bald!
Now, would the use of trotzdem not entail ich and kann to swap places?
Oh crap, very true!!! Sorry for the confusion and thanks for catching that early :)
Das war eine lange, schwierige Übung, aber trotzdem habe ich 100% geschafft!
Glückwunsch!!
Dankeschön!
I’m using this website with the sponsor program, thanks to the people who donated and to the website owner, time to fight german grammar and conquer it
Trotz meiner Selbstzweifel, habe ich 10 von 10 gekriegt
Ich hatte auch einige Zweifel, und trotzdem habe ich auch 10/10 bekommen.
Zweifel sind zum haben da :).
Ohne Komma hat der Kommentar auch 10/10 :)
Oje, die Kommasetzung ist immer noch ein Problem bei mir : )
Die Zeichensetzung ist sowieso anders in Deutsch als in Englisch. Die Kommata trennen in Deutsch nur eine grammatische Einheit des Satzes, eine Gedankenpause nicht.
Lass uns mal vergleichen:
“Your German pronunciation is good, however, you must improve your grammar!”
“Deine deutsche Aussprache ist gut, allerdings ist deine Grammatik verbesserungsfaehig!”
I assume you mean “Zweifel” here as doubts, is that right?
Not to nitpick, but Zweifel as a singular noun is masculine, therefore, “…..meines Zweifels” :-)
My apologies for correcting you!
Hi Harald- I am very happy to be corrected. Trotz meiner Selbstzweifel, was intended as plural – I think actually originally meant to write in spite of my doubts and then changed it to self-doubt – I’m guessing Selbstzweifel sound wrong in plural when refering to oneself ?
No, it’s perfectly fine and how I would say it!
Yes, that’s right! In German, as in English, we can obviously say/write “I have my doubtS” or for example,
“Ich habe meine Zweifel” and both are absolutely correct.
Again, my apologies for nitpicking. Typically German…..sometimes lol
I just wanted to say a thank you to everyone who contributed a little extra to support learners like me. I now have access to this amazing platform.
Vielen Dank an euch alle!