Hello everyone,
And welcome back to a new episode of The Grammar Files.
We’ve declassified Word Order. We’ve declassified Conditional. We’ve declassified Passive Voice and much more.
And if you want to speak proper German, the topic of this mini series is absolutely and utterly useless!
Boooh!
You do need it, if you want to write properly though, because today (and in part 2), we’ll look
Comma rules in German
Overall, I find German comma rules to be pretty easy and logical and the exception density is fairly low.
But there are some tricky instances, and there are also two fundamentally different paradigms in German and English that show up as mistakes in pretty much every learner’s writing at some point.
Still, compared to other topics, this will be a short and sweet two part series.
The shortbread of German grammar basically, with real butter.
So get yourself a coffee or tea and let’s dip in.
At the core of it all, the function of a comma is to create some sort of sectioning. It can create boundaries within a sentence which can help us organize content or simply make things more readable.
In German, I think we can organize the commas into the following three different groups:
- Listing things
- Separating Clauses
- Sectioning off stuff
Now, these are not really the “official” groups. Those vary a bit from language to language anyway. But these three groups work well enough for German and are definitely enough for us today.
So we’ll look at each of these groups one by one and then we’ll also take a quick look at some English commas that German specifically DOESN’T have.
Commas for lists
This type of comma is pretty universal, as far as I am aware.
When you’re just listing a bunch of entities, you connect them by commas. Except for the last one which is connected by and.
- Thomas, Maria und Jessica wohnen zusammen.
- Thomas, Maria and Jessica are living together.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
- Für Pfannkuchen braucht man Mehl, Milch, Zucker, Eier und ein bisschen Salz.
- For pancakes you need flour, milk, sugar, eggs and a bit of salt.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
And the stuff you’re listing can be people or things, like in the examples above, but we can also list adjectives in front of a noun.
- Ich habe einen schönen, großen, superweichen Pullover.
- I have a beautiful, big, super-soft sweater.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
And we can of course also list activities or verbs.
- Gestern habe ich gearbeitet, Sport gemacht, eingekauft, mit meiner Katze gespielt und ein Buch gelesen.
- Yesterday I worked, worked out, did grocery shopping, played with my cat and read a book.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
- Was ich dank der Deutschen Bahn gelernt habe: auf den Zug warten, auf Infos über den Zug warten, im Zug warten, woanders nochmal im Zug warten und auf meine Rückerstattung warten.
- What I learned thanks to the Deutsche Bahn: waiting for the train, waiting for infos on the train, waiting on the train, waiting on the train again elsewhere and waiting for my refund.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
This is all pretty familiar and intuitive, I think.
But there is one tricky bit that’s even confusing for native speakers sometimes. English has the exact same thing going on, but not all of you are native speakers, so I think it’s worth a quick mention.
And it has to do with adjectives before nouns.
Take this example:
- Das war ein langweiliges erstes Date.
- This was a boring first date.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
Both words have adjective endings (langweiliges, erstes) but they’re not separated by a comma, in German and in English.
And the reason is that “first date” is treated as one unit that then gets described by one adjective (“boring”).
Like… if someone asked “How was the date?”, you wouldn’t say “It was first and exciting.”
Now you might be like “Wait, but first is kind of a number, so that’s the reason, right?”
Well, no, not really.
- The famous pink butter is back in stock.
- The famous, pink butter is back in stock.
Both sentences are correct, but they mean different things.
The first one talks about that thing “pink butter” and calls it famous. A bit like this “famous (pink butter)”
The second one talks about butter that happened to be pink and famous.
A bit elusive if I phrase it like this, actually.
But the standard test if you need the comma or not is to replace it with and. If that works and your sentence still feels right, then the comma is correct. If adding an and changes the feel or even makes it sound wrong, then no comma.
- I want a cold German beer.
Do we need a comma here?
- I want a cold and German beer… NOPE
Adding an and absolutely doesn’t sound good, so we do not need a comma.
And in German it works exactly the same.
- Ich will ein kaltes deutsches Bier.
Like I said, this is something also native speakers feel a bit shaky about sometimes, but it’s also nothing to stress about too much unless you want to be a professional writer.
I just wanted to mention it, but you can forget it in 3,2,1…
Because now, we’ll get to more important things – the commas separating actions.
Commas – Separating Sentences
And this is where we’ll see one of the main differences between commas in German and commas in English.
We’ve already seen an example where we used commas to separate a list of activities.
But we also often have sentences in which two or more activity clauses are coordinated in some way to express an overall message. Or let’s say action clauses. That sounds more dynamic.
- I went home early because I felt tired from the workout I did at the gym.
This is not just a list of what I did; it’s three “actions” (going home, feeling tired, doing workout) that are interconnected. And there’s no comma involved.
And this is where we meet the first fundamental difference between German and English when it comes to comma rules.
Because in German, you do need commas.
Two action clauses are separated by commas in German.*
(*exceptions apply, of course)
Here’s the example again:
- Ich bin früh nach Hause gegangen, weil ich mich von dem Workout, das ich im Gym gemacht habe, müde gefühlt habe.
- I went home early because I felt tired from the workout (that) I did at the gym.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
As you can see, we have three commas in German and we’re using them to basically delimiting the different action clauses from each other.
- Ich bin früh nach Hause gegangen, weil ich mich von dem Workout, das ich im Gym gemacht habe, müde gefühlt habe.
Actually, this example is maybe not the best to start with because of the somewhat complicated structure in German.
Let’s look at a few more simple ones.
- Ich weiß, dass du hungrig bist.
- I know that you’re hungry.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
- Ich habe dir gesagt, warum ich zu spät bin.
- I told you why I am late.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
- Ich habe Kaffee getrunken, weil ich müde war.
- I drank coffee because I was tired.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
- Ich rufe dich an, wenn ich fertig bin.
- I’ll call you when I’m done.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
In all these examples, we’re coordinating two clauses with activities (or states of being) and we MUST separate them by comma in German.
- Die Bar, von der du mir erzählt hast, ist cool.
- The bar (that) you told me about is nice.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
And that goes for both sides, as you can see here. We’re putting in one clause onto another and both ends are marked by a comma.
Some of you are probably like “So when we have a subordinate clause, we need a comma.”
And yes, that’s correct, but I think it’s much better to think of it in terms of having two actions (or also “states”), because “subordinate clause” is not really intuitive and it doesn’t really matter what “shape” the action clause has.
It’s the same for a weil-sentence or dass-sentence or relative sentence (like the last example). And it’s also true for so called infinitive clauses.
- Ich gehe in die Küche, um ein Stück Butter zu holen.
- I’m going to the kitchen to get a piece of butter.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
- Thomas hat mich nur blöd angeguckt, anstatt sich zu entschuldigen.
- Thomas just looked at me stupidly instead of apologizing.
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
Again, we have two actions and they’re separated by a comma.
The only exception here are the pure zu-constructions, when they’re really short.
- Ich versuche(,) dich anzurufen.
- I try to call you.
This example is better without a comma. The comma just fragments it too much, if you will. But as soon as it gets longer, or if there are more specific dependencies, like the zu-construction referring to a noun or pronoun, then you do need a comma.
- Mein Plan, Thomas zu ärgern, hat funktioniert.
- My plan to annoy Thomas has worked.
(Comma needed because the zu-clause refers to the noun “plan”)
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
- Ich versuche seit drei Tagen, Maria von meinem Plan zu überzeugen.
- I’ve been trying for three days to convince Maria of my plan.
(Comma is better because it makes it more readable)
- Practice pronunciation – click once to start recording and again to stop
So bottom line… whenever you have two activity clauses, separate them by a comma.
Unless of course they are basically a list.
- Ich trinke Bier und esse Pizza.
Here, we have two actions, but they’re not really separate clauses. They’re just a list of things I am doing that happened to have two items on it. So here, they’re treated as “list” not as “clauses”.
And now, just to make sure, take a look at this sentence.
- I definitely can’t bring butter to your party tomorrow.
- Ich kann morgen definitiv keine Butter zu deiner Party mitbringen.
Do we need a comma here in the German version or not?
The answer is no!
We do have two verbs, kann and mitbringen, but they’re one unit, it’s one verbal phrase. It doesn’t matter how many “verbs” there are in the sentence. What matters is how many “activities” there are (which includes “states”).
All right.
So that was what you need to know about commas between clauses in German. Of course we’ll practice this but there’s still a third group of co… I… oh… hold on, I see we have a call here.
Jessica from Australia, welcome to the show.
“Hi Emanuel, I have a question about sentences.”
Sure, go ahead.
“So I feel like all the examples were about subordinating sentences of various kinds, but what about two main sentences. Like when you connect them with aber or so.”
Oh my god, I completely forgot about those, lol. Wow, that would have been an epic oversight.
In a nutshell, the core paradigm holds.
“So you separate them by comma?”
Yeah exactly, but there are some special cases that are worth a closer look. Honestly though, I feel like this is actually a good time to wrap it up for today and look at the main sentence commas and the third group in part two.
Thanks again for asking me that, I would have completely forgotten.
“Oh, no problem.”
Hey actually, if you want I could have you on in part two and we can talk about it together, what do you think?
“Sure, why not!”
Awesome, then let’s do it!
So… this was part one of our look at comma rules in German. If you want to check if you remember the core ideas of this article, you can take the little quiz I have prepared for you. It’s super short, because we’ll do a proper exercise about commas at the end of the series. But it’s a recap of the main points.
And of course if you have any questions or suggestions, just leave me a comment.
I hope you liked it and see you next time.
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” Auf die CDU-Ministerin, die gerade ihre Sparvorschläge für das deutsche Gesundheitssystem vorstellt, prasselt Unmut von allen Seiten ein: von Krankenkassen, Apotheker:innen, Ärzt:innen, Krankenhauslobby, Patientenvertreter:innen. Auch das ist kein schlechtes Zeichen, Warken legt sich tatsächlich mit (fast) allen der zahlreichen Interessengruppen an.”
I’m just wondering about the second sentence here as I don’t entirely get the comma.
If i was to translate the two clauses of second sentence into english and put a hyphen, colon (or, I think) a semi-colon in the sentence would have a sense. But a comma alone?
Its been a while since i really properly looked at english grammar, but I don’t think a comma works here in english.
Nor is that a bad sign , Warken is actually taking on nearly every one of the numerous interest-groups
Do you have any thoughts?
To me, it’s a comma larping as a period. The two sentences have no real business being connected by a comma as they’re completely independent.
But it’s not wrong technically, and the sentence before it is REALLY long, so putting a full stop here would drop us from a long ass sentence into a sort of staccato.
I think I’d go for somethinglike this:
– Auch das ist kein schlechtes Zeichen, legt sich Warken doch mit…
– Auch das ist kein schlechtes Zeichen, denn Warken legt sich…
I think a hyphen could also work, but we’re not as big on those in German as English is. And for the ; it is even worse. We barely ever use these I feel like.
Having a proper full stop there would create a bigger speaking pause than the comma, even though the comma feels pointless in retrospect.
Not sure if that helps :)
Interesting. yeah i actually was thinking about if i should thinking about an “invisible denn” although denn does seem a bit more specific.
It definitely add a stronger causation than without “denn”. Maybe a hyphen is the best way to go, indeed.
Although I can’t really put myself in the place of someone learning German as a foreign language, but if I might venture an observation, the difference between German and say, English, is that in German, we use the comma to separate clauses, in English it is used to separate thoughts or pauses in thought!
Example: Jedoch kann ich Ihnen nicht in diesem Fall zustimmen!
English: However, in this case, I can’t agree with you!
Yeah, that sounds like a good description of the underlying paradigms.
I hope it’s not true what say about the German trains. I have another sentence from the Handelsblatt, regarding which I have a query:
Given today’s discussion I’m now looking at the comma with suspicion, but that’s not my main concern. My question is regarding “könnten“. I understand that Konjunktiv II can be used for reported speed when Konjunktiv I results in ambiguity. My question is, does könnten‘s Konjuntiv II get “used up” in its reported speech role? So does könnten in this context mean “can” or “could”?
To me, it feels like a clear “could”. I recognize a Konjunktiv 1 when I see it, but I don’t miss it when it’s not there (even though it should technically be).
That said, “lenkten” is also a Konjunktiv 2, I think.
At first reading, I read it as “past tense”, but since it’s reported speech and the guy is talking about the pros and cons of short term speculation, AND it’s an official newspaper text, it makes sense if they use proper forms. The problem with “lenken” is – it could be Konjunktiv 1 but it ALSO sounds like present tense.
In this case then, Konjunktiv 2 fits much better because it fulfills the role of marking reported speech AND it also marks the hypothetical nature of the statement.
To add to that… I’d wager that 90% of all Germans read “könnten” as a simple “could” and do not notice that it could be there just to mark reported speech.
Plus the “so Godard” retroactively makes the whole thing unambiguously reported speech anyway.
I agree.
Thanks for these interactions. I have my brute-force approach to learning but these insights from a native speaker lead to penetrating gains on my side. I have another sentence from the Handelsblatt, but this should require a one-word reply:
The “über” should be “durch”, right?
Both work and there’s no real difference in meaning. Would “via” work in English in this context?
It could be said that way I suppose. But more importantly I see your thinking, and that is fine.
That’s an interesting way of explaining clauses. Seems pretty intuitive.
– “So when we’re having a subordinate clause, we need a comma.”
This should just be simple present (“when we have a subordinate clause”). “We’re having a subordinate clause” makes it sound like we’re having it for dinner :)
Describing a sentence or a clause is kind of like describing a person. The characteristics are what they are. He has long hair, she has blue eyes, the sentence has a dependent clause. Those are permanent characteristics, or permanent enough that they go with simple present. Present continuous sounds wrong.
Nice, thanks :)!
About subordinate clauses… I find this to be one of the hardest things to EXPLAIN, but it’s not hard to “understand”. Once you know it, they’re super easy to spot.
But the thing in English is that the definition “A clause that cannot stand alone” is not helpful if you don’t already know what is meant.
– The pizza I ate yesterday evening was bad.
– I know what I want is a pony.
– I slept because I was tired.
“I ate yesterday evening” works well alone. Same for “What I want is a pony.” and “Because I was tired.” if I use it as a reply to something.
It’s MUCH easier in German, because you just look at the structure and you see it.
I want to thank Emmanuel as well as the members of this website for sponsoring my membership! I really needed it since I’m a broke college student, and I wanted to fulfill my dream of learning German. Thank you so much, guys!
Just so you know, by paying for your membership, you’re helping people like me who are eager to learn and won’t let y’all down! I promise I’ll make the most of it, and I’m committed to learning as much as I can.
Sending y’all a bear hug!
Danke!
When to pause for a comma when reading German text, besides lists?
I’d say, you pause only if you need a pause to express some sort of strong separation.
Normally, you’d express German commas by a slight breaking of melody.
– Der Mann, mit dem Maria gestern was trinken war, ist groß.
Voice goes up toward “Mann”, then sudden drop back down, going up toward “war”, then sudden drop down.
Everything very subtle of course.
“ ein bisschen zu viel auf Twitter” Really, nobody should be on Twitter (or Facebook) now. Even if you think ‘one person makes no difference’, when everybody together refuses to support these people, then there is change. Until then, “it is better to light a single candle than curse the darkness”. I read that in Peanuts, so it must be true.
The only reason I am there (besides compulsion) is that I want to “weigh in”. We’ll have elections here in Germany in three weeks and I don’t want the right wing bubble to think they’re alone and I don’t want my bubble to think it’s small. A shared sense of momentum can go a long way. Like… no one goes to a restaurant that looks empty. No one votes for a party that looks like a loser. I will probably stop going on twitter once this is election is over, though it’s also my only source for the real life satire that are the current White House pressers.
Shutting down opposition never solves anything. I listen to both sides of a discussion to be better informed, then make my decision. Shutting down opposing thoughts isn’t objective.
True, true, but Twitter in particular is not just people voicing their opinions and stand points. It’s an opinion creation machine, with very heavy machinery under the hood, ranging from bot networks to paid propaganga outlets and the algorith.
I’m on edge as to whether being on Twitter really nowadays means looking at different viewpoints or whether it’s maybe more of a plugging into some machine messing with our brains, no matter what direction. The profit motive drives many people’s output there (no matter their views), so many are trying to make money mainly, and not so much just exchange ideas. This is hugely distortive. No money is earned on the public square, so to speak.
I hear you. That’s why I don’t use any social media. But then again, I’m a grumpy old-timer. I got along without it for 70 years, so I don’t think I’m missing anything. By the way, I really appreciate all the work you put into this website. It is absolutely fantastic.
Me too, I remember the days when I would spend a morning reading a printed newspaper 15 years ago and I have such fond memories of it.
Social Media is a net loss of quality of life for me. The internet is a plus, but social media is a loss.
Wunderbar wie immer! Nur eine Sache… In dem Beispiel “Das war ein langweiliges erstes Date” in der Übersetzung darunter (below that?) du sagt “That was a boring first date”, aber in dem erklärenden Sätz sagt du “exciting”.
Danke, an dem Beispiel habe ich last minute sehr viel rumgedoktort, und dann passieren diese Fehler immer :D
In meinem Job tue ich es ständig.
Just a note about English. You said “…waiting for infos on the train.” Two things. One big, one small. The first is absolute. ‘Information’ is strictly a non-count noun in English, so no plural ‘s’ (even when it’s truncated to ‘info’). ‘Infos’ isn’t an English word. The other issue is a bit arcane. Normally, “information ON something” is OK, maybe just a bit awkward sounding, but in this case, the more common phrase “on the train” dominates, so “waiting for info on the train” sounds like I’m sitting on the train waiting for some information. It would work better with “…waiting for info ABOUT the train.”
I, too, also always use the “Oxford comma”. I feel it clarifies things-I don’t need to do a double-take and reread the sentence. However, as in the use of “whom”, I understand that what we once were taught were hard-and-fast rules is now considered more flexible. Life is short; you need to pick your battles. I also would take issue with some of the first sentences is your post: I would have used a few more commas in the English sentences than you did. That said, I’m here to improve my German and your English is perfectly understandable.
There happens to be a t-shirt that reads: “Let’s eat Grandma. Let’s eat, Grandma. Commas save lives.”
Oh could you actually tell me a couple of extra commas you’d put? I know this is about German mainly, but I do draw comparisons to English, so if my understanding there is wrong, then the comparison is wrong and that then kind of gets in the way of following my narrative :)
Another vote for the Oxford comma – basically, it is used in EVERY list of a, b, and c. As soon as you have three or more in the list, there’s a comma before the “and.” Marriages have been destroyed by disagreements over the Oxford comma! (Also the subjunctive, but that’s another story…)
However, there is one more issue I take with your explanation of the two-adjective pattern where neither German nor English seem to use a comma between the adjectives. I don’t believe that in English it has anything to do with the relationship between the second adjective and the noun. Maybe someone would write “the small, twin-engine airplane” but that’s only because of the finicky “twin-engine,” and it still looks wrong to me. The small turboprop airplane. The noisy military airplane. No commas. I write a lot professionally, and I find that I use commas in English to make readers read the words the way I would say them, in other words, to get the music of the language right. (And in that sentence, the first comma is to separate two complete sentences that could have been written as two separate sentences without “and,” while the commas around “in other words” reflect how it would be said aloud. They’re also an apology for writing too long a sentence!)
Bottom line: I think the practice in (US) English is simply never to use a comma when you only have two adjectives before a noun. I wish the practice were also to use the Oxford comma before the “and” in a series of more than two things, but it’s not universal. (Note the use of the dying subjunctive…)
So “big blue sweater” you’d write without a comma then and “old, big, blue sweater” with two, right?
Chains of adjectives are kind of a funky thing in English. I don’t think the commas look wrong with a list of 3+ adjectives, but I think how short and/or common the adjectives are also plays a role. “She was wearing her big old blue sweater” reads fine to me without the commas. Even combined with other adjectives, sometimes things like color words sort of resist commas:
I’d agree very strongly with ExDC that commas in English are often much more about helping you hear the rhythm of speech when you read than about serving a grammatical function.
That’s something I think can be a challenge for English speakers getting the hang of reading German aloud: you often really shouldn’t pause – at least not much – for a comma in a German sentence, especially for a relative clause.
You can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that would always be spoken in one breath without any pauses to speak of (unless you want to heighten the OH NOES WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BEER drama before revealing the horrible truth).
Yup, that example would be read “as one”. You can make a pause if you WANT to create that effect of separation, but these action-clause commas are really pure “grammar”.
In that sense, I think German commas are “easier” because they’re less depending on intuition. But of course they’re hard if your brain is already hardwired for another paradigm.
This was my question, thank you. I find myself reading aloud to my children a lot and pausing at every comma. But then the sentence feels awkward. I can’t seem to stop my English brain from pausing at every comma and my German isn’t good enough yet to foretell the rest of the sentence to know where I should pause. So my reading is not smooth. Any tips? Or is this just something I have to wait to get a feel for?
In my experience, it’s mainly a matter of time and feel. But the whole “don’t pause for commas” thing is also not super high on the priority list of things that will make your spoken/read German easy to follow, so I hope you don’t feel too stressed about it. I think the overall rhythm of speech and getting the emphasis right in individual words (not to mention pronunciation more generally) are more important to work hard on in your earlier learning. Navigating punctuation is more of a polishing sort of thing.
For what it’s worth, I find that native German speakers also tend to pause at commas more than they need to when reading aloud, at least if they’re doing it on the fly without much preparation. And while we’re at it, failure to correctly deploy commas is one of the most common gripes of teachers/professors I’ve run into when they complain about the kids these days. :) SMS and WhatsApp and so forth tend to inculcate a bit of laziness and also imitation of speech, so commas are very optional (much like in English).
100%!!
And most people are really not good at reading off the page. It’s a difficult thing to do actually, because you need to read and understand what you’re reading while also anticipate a lot to get the melody and pauses right.
Agreed. It’s tough to teach early readers to read fluently in their native language. I’m afraid I can’t leave it until later though because I have lots of small children to read aloud to. It’s one of the best ways for them to learn the language, too, though they’re about to surpass me since they’re in German schools all morning!
Reading out loud is THE BEST way to learn a new language for me. It trains the brain AND the mouth muscles at the same time. It’s really exhausting also, but that is just a sign that you’re putting in serious work and you’ll get serious results.So, good on you that you have a reason that pushes you to do it.
I think it comes with time and practice, especially listening practice. Any kind of listening practice helps, especially if you can see the words written out and listen to them at the same time, or back to back. That works with videos that have exact subtitles. For example, pretty much anything from Lingoni German or Easy German on Youtube. Or with books, you can get the audiobook to go with a physical or e-book. And just do a few sentences at a time, but really spend time with them.
Hoi zäme! Entschuldigen Sie die verspätete Antwort. Zwei Wochen lang war ich in dickes Schweizerdeutsch in die Versionen des Kantons Glarus und des Kantons Zürich vertieft. Auweh! As for English commas, I wouldn’t think of writing “an old big blue sweater.” It feels like too many adjectives. But if I did, I wouldn’t use any commas at all, unless for emphasis. That’s not based on any rule, but I tend to use commas to match the “music” of the spoken language. So if I were (subjunctive!!!) trying to build suspense, or presenting a surprise twist, I might write “And there on the chair was the old, big, blue sweater that I hadn’t seen since my father’s death!” Each comma would signal a pause in the rhythm of the sentence. On the other hand, “At the bottom of the washing machine I found a big old blue sweater that someone had overlooked.” No commas, just a description of something left behind.
Coming back to this 9 months later, I’m once again headed to CH, this time Lenzeheide (lots of Brits and Germans), I am struck again by this whole exchange about the difference in the relationship between commas and the articulation of the sentence in English and German. As a weak B1, I find that I pause at German commas to ensure that I am putting all the pieces together properly. (In German that last sentence would have taken at least 2 and maybe 3 commas, right?) This is fascinating, and I can’t wait to go immersive again in 10 days.
– As a weak B1, I find that I pause at German commas to ensure that I am putting all the pieces together properly.
Let’s see :)
– Als schwächeres B1 habe ich beobachtet, dass ich bei deutschen Kommas einen Pause mache, um sicherzugehen, dass ich alle Teile richtig zusammensetze.
Yup, 3 commas because it’s 3 actions… observing (finding), making sure and putting together.
Viel Spaß in der Schweiz!!
in case anyone has some time to kill: the other day i found an app on the app store that has a comma-setting game – you’re given a text and have to place the right number of commas in the right position; also there’s a mode where you tap the commas and they show the related rules :D it’s called “Kommaregeln Deutsch”, also available on google play i think
Ohhh, sounds great!!
Hallo,
Only found one typo:
But I have a question, I failed the “Ich habe dreimal versucht(,) dich anzurufen” question because I didn’t think it was “short”. Again, I also failed the “Ich weiss was du willst question” because, in this case, I thought was short… So what is actually considered short? I’m guessing it’s a grey area ;)
Bis bald!
So the stuff about short ONLY applies to simple “zu-constructions”, nothing else.
The example with “wissen, was du willst” is definitely short, but it’s not a zu-construction.
– Ich habe versucht, dich anzurufen.
This is a simple, “free” zu-construction. And what needs to be short is the part with “zu”, not the entire sentence. I forgot to point that out explicitely.
Basically, the more “substance” the zu-part has, the more custom it is to put a comma there.
Does that help?
Absolutely, fully understood!!!
And how would restrictive and non-restrictive clauses work here compared to German?
For example. Die Bar, von der du mir erzählt hast, ist cool, could be either The bar that you told me about is cool (restrictive, I’m talking only about the bar you told me about and no other); or it could be The bar, which you told me about, is cool (non-restrictive, the bit between the commas is purely for information and isn’t important to the sentence.
It doesn’t matter. Action clause is action clause.
Same for “The bar you told me about” where you skip the relative pronoun. You can neither skip the pronoun in German, nor the comma.
For more about relative pronouns, you can check my series about them :)
What about the “Oxford Comma”?
E.g. “Ben, Bob, and Bill are married” has a different sense than “Ben, Bob and Bill are married”.
(I know our laws don’t allow the latter just yet, but you get what I mean…)
I take it German never uses a common like this though? So “Ben, Bob, und Bill sind verheiratet” would be incorrect.
Ha, I have no clue what that comma is supposed to mean or do.
It makes no sense in German.
It is a comma used before the conjunction in a list of 3 or more items. It is named after Oxford University Press. It is the matter of some debate about whether is it grammatically preferably. Those of us who had it drilled into our heads to use it in grammar school (ha!) have trouble giving it up. I think it was phased out when newspapers tried to compress the amount of space an article would take. So I was surprised that you didn’t say “Unlike English, there is no debate about about using a comma before the conjunction. It is never required.”
I wasn’t even aware this was a thing in English. But is there a difference in meaning between the two versions that Scecclesia mentioned avobe?
Also… “comma before the conjunction”… we do have commas in front of conjunctions (like “,aber” for example). We’ll talk about that in part 2.
But a comma before “and” in a list is absurd to me.
Came here to find the discussion of Oxford commas! Thanks for not disappointing. Without the Oxford comma, the sentence could be read as “Ben, dude, check it out — Bob and Bill are married”
The Oxford comma excludes this interpretation
I’m not sure I follow.
So with the comma there, they’re getting married in a three way?
No, Ben is the person you’re addressing.
The canonical example sentence is:
“I’d like to thank my parents, Beyoncé and God.”
versus
”I’d like to thank my parents, Beyoncé, and God.”
the 2nd is clearer — it’s a list of 3 people you’re thanking.
In the 1st, you might be saying that your parents ARE Beyoncé and God.
Ohhhhh, okay, I get it now.
Not sure what the official take is in German grammar, but I would use a “-” or “;” or “:”.
Thanks for clearing it up!!
I knew the Oxford comma would come up in the first wave of comments, but I’m a bit disappointed no flame war among the English speakers has broken out so far. People get Real Mad about the Oxford comma (on both sides).
Maybe everyone is exhausted from all the other things we bark about at each other these days, so the Oxford comma is more like a reminder of good old times when we’d get worked up over punctuation… a simpler life it was :)
I think that in German, you don’t need an Oxford Komma because the sentence isn’t ambiguous. In English, “I thank my family, my dog and my cat” is ambiguous. In German, “Ich bedanke mich bei meiner Familie, meinem Hund und meiner Katze” is one thing, while you would use a relativpronomen for the other meaning: “Ich bedanke mich bei meiner Familie, die aus meinem Hund und meiner Katze besteht.”
You wouldn’t really rephrase it like that, it sounds super technical.
You’d probably do a LONG pause after Familie and write a –
– Ich bedanke mich bei meiner Familie – meinem HUnd und meiner Katze.
Or even better, you’d do a small pause and then use a word like “also” or “sprich” which are short options for “that means”.
Und zwar!
Not really, that only fits if everyone is expecting a clarification/definition, while “meine Familie” is usually fine without something coming after it and there is only one option.
Here’s an example where “und zwar” fits:
Actually maybe it sounds boring to people, but there are so many things that i do in english, like () and …, that i don’t think are done in german, while german uses – and : much more often. I’d love an article that was interesting enough that i would read it.
Thanks for this discussion everyone – I hadn’t checked in on it for a while but it has been very helpful.
In English, I always use the Oxford comma so I was wondering this too.
I also generally use the Oxford comma.
You just know bro ain’t reading his articles once he’s done lol
Ich kann morgen definitiv keine Butter zu deiner Party mitbringen.”We do have two verbs, kann and kommen, but they’re one unit, it’s one verbal phrase.”
That’s a ‘mitbringen’ (Don’t worry i get bored aswell reading stuff that i write)
The famous pink butter is back in stock.The famous, pink butter is back in stock.”The first one talks about that thing “pink unicorn” and calls it famous.”
Idk if that was a joke but still. Hope the hangover won’t be too heavy
The comment got glitched epic
The system didn’t save my corrections. I had it all corrected. It was the most correct. English professors came to me and said, Sir, they said, this is the most correct essay I have ever seen, how do you do that, Sir. But the software didn’t save it, I don’t know why, we’re looking into it. Maybe someone did something, I don’t know. But the system didn’t save it with all the beautiful corrections I had.
My dude, it’s like what, almost 2 AM there in Germany, go to bed
Beer never sleeps.
Seriously though, I was with friends and read it when I got home and these blunders were just too big to leave them. It’s just a couple minutes to fix anyway.
Hi, community. I just wanted to thank you all because I was granted a scholarship for membership, I am grateful with everyone who participate in this type of benefits.