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Hi Emanuel – fun little article. This question is way in the weeds, but in the comments you mention wegen deiner and wegen dir…is deiner the substitute for dir in Genitive? I can see wegen deiner Frage – sorry if I’m rambling here.
Thanks
Yup, “deiner” is a possessive article (deine Frage, deiner Frage) but also a proper pronoun.
– ich, mir, mich, meiner
– du, dir, dich, deiner
Here’s an example with a Genitive after a verb:
– Ich erinnere mich deiner.
– Ich erinnere mich dessen.
It’s quite rare in spoken and impossible to catch for most learners.
If it’s an article, then “deiner” is unclear as to whether it is Genitive or Dative for a feminine noun.
– wegen deiner Frage
This can be Genitive or Dative, and virtually no native speaker actually wonders what case they’re using here :). They just know the pattern “wegen deiner” for feminine and plural objects.
How’d you end up at this article, btw? Was it via the “random” feature?
Ich mag deine Audiodateien total
Danke sehr
Actually, ‘effectively’ is probably what I’d say in English if I wanted to say ‘de facto’ in another way.
Ich bin spät zur Party gekommen, aber:
Die Stadt ist de facto pleite.
The town is in fact bankrupt.
Auf Englisch ist ‘de facto’ kein Synonym für ‘in fact’ (‘in effect’/’in practice’ sind näher). Oder zumindest ist das nicht das genaue Sinn, in dem ich es normalerweise höre. Ist die deutsche Bedeutung vielleicht ein bisschen anders?
Ah cool, danke. Ich war mir da echt nicht sicher und das Wörterbuch hat nicht geholfen. “in fact” has this vibe of “reveal” which “de facto” doesn’t have. “In practice” passt aber auch nicht wirklich.
“de facto” ist für mich ein bisschen so wie “without all sugar coating”
(Switching to English as it’s late and slightly hard to explain)
The most common use for ‘de facto’ in English (at least NZ English) is to describe couples who are living together, financially interdependent, may have children together etc etc, but aren’t legally married. So the ‘de facto’ kind of means they’re married in all respects except legally. So ‘in practice’ fits quite well, at least in that context.
It’s a subtle distinction, but as I said, I wouldn’t use ‘in fact’ as synonymous.
Of course, the German ‘de facto’ may have a quite different emphasis and/or meaning.
That’s an interesting example. The German “de facto” wouldn’t work here exactly because they are in fact NOT married.
I rather like the term for bankruptcy: der Bankrott . . . . makes me think of rotten banks! Oh yes, a little bit of a diversion:
What’s the collective noun for Bankers?
A wunch of Bankers.
(think about it)
ooooooooookay… got it (took me like 6 days)
I never “got” it – finally gave in and googled it – I would have NEVER guessed but it makes perfect sense when I read it.
If I wanted “a nice, conventional, family friendly piece without any swearing or crazy-ness”, I’d watch Disney movies – your site is GREAT and really cuts the boring crap, gets to the point and Teaches German! And it’s a hoot! Adding to the fun are all the subscribers, who are equally interested in languages and all seem to have very receptive “language sensors”. Keep spewing irreverent comments and don’t forget at spoonful of unicorns every now and then!
I’ll second that.
If you are Pleite, you are in plight. Be polite.
“pleite”, that reminds me of the national animal or the animal on the coat of arms of Germany. (“Wappentier” in German)
I know everybody likes heraldics. So here some famous animals symbolizing countries:
The Gallic rooster for France.
The lion for England. (I think Wales has a dragon, so that can’t be for the whole UK or is it?)
New Zealand has the kiwi.
Australia the kangaroo.
Russia the brown bear.
The USA is very often symbolized by the bald eagle.
And Germany also goes with an eagle, but we have a lovely word for it:
“der Pleitegeier” (unoffical name of the German national animal)
“Geier” means vulture and “Pleite” was just explained. It is an ironic way to emphasize the high debts of the country.
The word is also used proverbial in the context of a nearing bankruptcy for anybody.
“Die Pleitegeier kreisen schon.” = “The bancruptcy is imminent.” (lit. “The vultures of bankruptcy are already circling (above).”)
Oh, the Pleitegeier…. how could I forget :).
A Yiddish word to denote bankruptcy, what are the odds
It was Berlin street thugs in the 19th century who started using it in this context. In Yiddish it was still about escape.
Hallo Emmanuel, Ich habe einen Frage über das vierte Beispiel. Die Präposition <> verwendet einen Objekt in der Genetiv-Kasus. Warum nicht <>?
That’s a myth. “wegen” works with both, Genitive and Dative. Dative is more common. If someone tells you otherwise, then ask them if they would say “wegen deiner” or “wegen dir”. That’ll most likely shut them up.
There’s also the similar sounding word in English, plight which can mean promise or pledge or risk. My dictionary says it is obsolete but it is used quite often in phrases like “the plight (fate) of the victims is unknown.”
Oh, true, that sounds even more similar than “pleed”. Those two are related, of course :)
I could be wrong, but I remember what I read in the textbook was wegen+genitive…so maybe ”Die Firma ist wegen dem Shitstorm fast pleite gegangen’ should be ‘Die Firma ist wegen des Shitstorms fast pleite gegangen’ instead?
PS: I really love this site. Gut gemacht! (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧
Haben Sie nicht gehört? “Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod”, ne? (Der Dativ ist der Tod des Genitivs). Ich bin mir nicht sicher, aber ich glaube es ist eine Art von Witz. Auch der Titel eines Buches verfasst von Bastian Sick.
Bastian Sick ist ein Idiot! NICHT kaufen!! (I can rant about this guy for like… 3 minutes straight. 3 MINUTES!!!ARGH!!)
OK Emanuel. I won’t!
To give a bit of context.. he “made” several books consisting of photos of signs where people made silly spelling and grammar mistakes and he also used these photos in his evening long stand up comedy routine (which is cringe as hell). So he basically cashes in on other people’s lack of education which I find pretty low.
And also, he is HIGHLY prescriptive. In all his books, he lectures people on what the rule says and how they’re doing it wrong and how he’s there to educate us. He completely ignores the realities of contemporary German AND he doesn’t have much of insight beyond regular grammar books. He is certainly not reading papers coming out of linguistics departments. He wouldn’t be so preachy if he did.
Phew, rant over.
I am still learning German, but I remember what I read in the text book was wegen+genetive…so maybe ‘Die Firma ist wegen dem Shitstorm fast pleite gegangen’ should be ‘Die Firma ist wegen des Shitstorms fast pleite gegangen’? Please check :-)
PS: I really love this site. Well done! (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧
I know textbooks and teachers cling to this but the realities are different.
No one says “wegen deiner”, everyone says “wegen dir”. And there are more examples.
Genitive and Dative are both in use equally.
Oder… der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod ;)
kkkkk
Love your work. Wie immer!
Sehr interessant! Trotzdem würde ich sagen, dass auf Englisch buchstabieren wir es ‘Yiddish’
Oh, ups. Danke!