Hello everyone,
and welcome to our German Word of the Day. This time we’ll have a look at the meaning of
vorkommen
Kommen means to come and unlike most of the prefixes vor has only one core: the idea of “in front”-ness. And it’s actually a rather simple straight forward prefix verb. It has a modest 4.4 MBU (mind bend units) on the Mind Bend Scale, nothing compared to the “logic” of bestellen with its 1,2 million MBU. And just to put these numbers in perspective … understanding bestellen is like kissing your belly button, vorkommen is more like touching your shins.
So, really nothing too demanding. So without any further ado, let’s get right to the first meaning of vorkommen and that is… to happen.
Now you’re like “That’s not simple at all.” and you’re right, I just wanted to scare you a little. The actual translation for vorkommen is to occur.
“Emanuel, this is NOT any better.”
Oh yes, it is. The verb to occur comes from Latin. It’s a combination of the prefix ob- which meant against, toward and the verb currere, which meant to run. That is where current comes from, by the way. So, the literal meaning of occur once was simply to run toward. From there, it changed to the more general idea of to present itself, to show up – a meaning that is still part of to occur in contexts like, say, the number of occurrences of a word in a text. How often does a word present itself, show up, occur in a text. And guess what… that’s also a meaning of vorkommen
- In philosophischen Texten kommt selten das Wort Scheiße vor.
- The word “shit” rarely occurs in philosophical texts
- Forscher vermuten riesige Erdölvorkommen unter der Arktis.
- Scientists expect/suspect there to be enormous oil reserves/deposits under the Arctic.
- Die Butterblume kommt in der Arktis vor.
- The buttercup can be found/”occurs” in the Arctic zone.
And when we take the last example we can see that it’s really just a very small step from this meaning to the idea of to happen.
- Schneestürme kommen oft in der Arktis vor.
- Snow storms often happen/occur in the Arctic zone.
The snow storms “come forth”, they show up, take place, happen. I hope you can see the connection.
- “Ich hatte gestern 1 Stunde keinen Handyempfang.”
“Das tut uns natürlich leid, aber bei so einem starken Sturm kann das schon mal vorkommen.” - “I didn’t have reception for about 1 hour yesterday.”
“Of course we’re sorry for that but during this strong of a storm that can happen.”
- Das darf nie wieder vorkommen.
- That must never happen again.
- Wenn das noch mal vorkommt, wird es Konsequenzen geben.
- There will be consequences if that happens again.
Now, the number 1 German word for to happen is passieren. Vorkommen is by far not as general. Uses like the ones in the examples are the most common ones and there are a few contexts in which vorkommen does not work at all. For one thing, it sounds a little bit slow, so it doesn’t work well for quick or sudden events. Like, you hear glasses crashing from the kitchen or your friend calls you and breaks down crying…. vorkommen would sound super out of place and unidiomatic here.
- Was ist vorgekommen?… NOPE, sounds wrong
- Was ist passiert?… yup
- What happened?
Also, you wouldn’t use it to refer to single instances of events so you’ll pretty much never find vorkommen in combination with a specific point in time.
- [Bluh bluh] ist am Montag vorgekommen… NOPE, sounds wrong
- [Blah blah] ist am Montag passiert.… yup
- That happened on Monday.
And last but not least vorkommen absolutely doesn’t work when you want to say that something happens to someone. It’s the same for to occur.
- It happened to me that she fell asleep.
- It occurred to me that she fell asleep.
These two are totally not the same. To occur now expresses the idea of personal impression. And it’s the same with vorkommen. When you add a person the verb turns away from a real event toward an personal perception. And in contrast to to occur, vorkommen actually is much more personal. Like… to occur to me is about recognizing something that is the case. Jemandem vorkommen is about getting the impression something MIGHT be the case. As similar as they are, the two are actually never translations for each other. Think of vorkommen as to seem (for to occur the better translation is einfallen).
- Das kommt mir komisch vor.
- The seems strange/fishy to me.
- Das kommt mir Spanisch vor. (common idiom)
- That seems strange to me.
- Manchmal kommt es mir so vor, als ob du gar nicht richtig da bist.
- Sometimes it seems to me like you’re not really there/here.
- Die Stimme kommt mir irgendwie bekannt vor.
- The voice seems/sounds somehow familiar to me.
- Kommt es nur mir so vor oder ist dieser Sommer scheiße.
- Is it just me or does this summer suck.
And then there’s this phrasing: ich komme mir vor. Literally, it is “I occur to myself” and it’s about what impression you have of yourself within a certain environment but the actual translation is to feel.
- Wann immer ich mit Marias Bruder rede, komme ich mir vor wie ein Idiot.
- Whenever I talk to Maria’s brother I feel like an idiot.
- 5 Euro für einen Kaffee?! Ich komme mir ein bisschen verarscht vor.
- 5 Euro for one coffee?! I feel a little cheated.
Not bad, huh… a word that can mean to happen and to feel. Sounds super crazy but it actually makes perfect sense. “Perfect” as in “kind of”, I mean :). Seriously though… the core is to show up and that can be bent either way… taking place, happen or appear, seem.
Let me maybe point out again that for the appear-sense you absolutely NEED this mir/dir bit.
- It seems fast.
- Es kommt schnell vor…. NOT A TRANSLATION
- Es kommt mir schnell vor. .. this works
All right.
So this was vorkommen and it’s cool meanings and everyday usages. Now for the boring rest… the r-version.
hervorkommen
Which isn’t even an r-version, because pronouncing a single r in front of a v would be kind of hard. There’s only hervorkommen and this is about the idea of coming out from somewhere hidden into the open.
- Der Bartender kommt hinter dem Tresen hervor.
- The bar tender comes out from behind the bar.
- Die Sonne kommt hinter den Wolken hervor.
- The sun comes out from behind the clouds.
- Wenn Thomas Wein trinkt, kommt seine romantische Seite hervor.
- When Thomas drinks wine, his romantic side comes out.
What it doesn’t mean, even though that would make sense, is the super literal idea of come to the front. The proper word for that is nach vorne kommen (though you can also find vorkommmen in some contexts)
- Tim, komm bitte nach vorne/(vor) an die Weltkarte und zeige uns, wo Norwegen ist. (a teacher in geography class)
- Tim, please come to the world map in front and show us where Norway is.
- So kommt Ihr Foodblog bei Google ganz nach vorne.
- This is how your food blog makes the first page on Google.
And since we’re at it, we might as well also mention the word vorankommen, which what all learners want… make progress.
- In dem Sturm kommen wir nur langsam voran.
- I this storm we can move forward only slowly.
- “Wie läuft’s mit deiner Hausarbeit?”
“Super, ich komme gut voran.” - “How’s it going with your paper?”
“Great, I’m making good progress.”
Cool.
And I’d say we’re done. This was our look at the prefix verb vorkommen which organically stretches from to happen and to feel, even though it may vorkommen you super crazy at first ;).
As always, if you have any questions or suggestions or if you want to try out some examples, just leave me a comment.
I hope you enjoyed it, and see you next time.
** vorkommen – fact sheet **
meaning:
vorkommen – to occur, to happen
mir/dir/… vorkommen – occur to me, seem to me
sich vorkommen wie – feel like something
past:
form of sein + vorgekommen
kam- … vor
related words:
das Vorkommen(-) – the deposit (natural resources only)
die Vorkommnisse – the occurrences (usually with a negative tone, rare)
keine besonderen Vorkommnisse – nothing to report
hinter etwas hervorkommen – come out from behind something
vorankommen – make progress
Hi Emmanuel, thank you for all the work you do for German learners. One quick question: in the sentence “das darf nie wieder vorkommen” can I replace “darf” with “muss” and have the same meaning?
No, not really.
Technically, the phrase then means.
But that doesn’t make all that much sense.
Convo 1
Einhorn 1 : Könne ich zu Hausn ankommen ohne einfallend vor kommt.
Einhorn 2 : Es kam (nur/einfach) wirklich vor.
Einhorn 1 : Kühlschränke fliegen Schwimmbad nicht ein
(Passiern would have been better?)
Convo 2
Einhorn 1 : Es kommt mir vor,dass dein Kochen schmeckt wie Socken (it seems to me that you cooking tastes like socks)
Einhorn 2 : Warum hast du diese gesagt? (Why did you say this
Einhorn 1 : Es kommt hervor wenn du spielst (it comes out if you play)
Einhorn 2 : Wir kommen nie anvor ( we will never make progress)
If anything requires clarification,please say so
I need a full translation for convo 1. That makes no sense.
En1 : Could I get home without an incident happening?
En2 : it just happened
En1: Fridges don’t fly into swimming pools
Is convo 2 alright?
En1) Könnte ich nach Hause kommen, ohne das ein Vorfall passiert?
En2) Es ist grad einer passiert.
En1) Kühlschranke fliegen nicht in SPs.
That’s still weird though. The whole, convo is weird, you have to admit.
Yeah, my creative mind sometimes. I thoulg “fly into” was “einfliegen” though
“vorkommen” is “to occur” in a sense of once in a while events.
It is not a good translation for “to happen” in a context of convo 1. Also: “ohne einfallend vor kommt”… sorry but this is completely broken.
As for Convo 2:
This was much better, but in the third statement “rauskommen” would be the idiomatic choice. In the last line, “anvor”… that’s a new one :D. The verb is “vorankommen”, the prefix is “voran” you don’t have to switch this up.
“5 Euro für einen Kaffee?! Ich komme mir ein bisschen verarscht vor.”
Kannst du erklären die Bedeutung von verarscht ein bisschen bitte? Danke!
Ich glaube die beste Erklärung für “verarschen” ist “to take someone for a fool”.
Das kann dann heißen “to scam” oder “to bullshit” oder “to betray”, je nach Kontext.
Hilft das?
Hello, and thanks for this great explanation. I have just one question: in dictionaries (e.g. Langenscheidt) I could find that “jemandem vorkommen” means also “to happen to someone”. E.g. “so etwas ist mir noch nicht vorgekommen” (d.h.: habe ich nie gesehen) = “I have never seen the like of that”. So not only a personal impression (i.e. to seem to someone) but also an objective experience.
Is it yet again a regional thing?
Either regional or slightly outdated. If I read that in a book I would understand it based on context and common sense but I honestly don’t think I’ve ever heard that anywhere and I’ve certainly never said it.
I would have used “untergekommen” here. It seems unusual with “vorkommen”.
Stimmt, das kenn’ ich auch.
– Das ist mir noch nie untergekommen.
Aber das Verb ist im Alltag ziemlich selten. Nix was man im aktiven Wortschatz braucht.
Was ist passiert? This means the past. But what if I wanted to say “what is happening?” German doesn’t use the present continuous like English. Ex: Was passiert hier?
Yup, that’s how you’d say it (though depending on context, a different verb might be a better fit).
While we’re on the topic of happenings/occurrences, how would you compare “passieren” and “geschehen”?
“geschehen” is way less common and it has serious, grave tone.
– Was ist hier geschehen?
Everyone would assume that something pretty bad happened. I don’t think I hear “geschehen” at all in my day to day life, actually. Do you encounter it often ?
Oh, not day-to-day, at least in conversation. But it does tend to pop up in less contemporary German Bible translations, since there’s a Hebrew/NT-Greek word that means more or less “it was/happened” that’s used to introduce contextual information in a narrative. The classic example (as translated in the King James):
– And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed. (Luke 2:1, the beginning of the biblical Christmas story)
Luther translated it with “Es begab sich aber zu der Zeit…”; the (super-literal) Elberfelder translation has “Es geschah aber in jenen Tagen…” That’s usually what I associate “geschehen” with, I guess, in my line of work. :) What you said lines up with what my tutor said – I think she had me change a “passieren” to a “geschehen” in a sermon because I was describing something big and serious happening and “passieren” was a little too ordinary/bland.
Yeah, I think “geschehen – passieren” a rare example for when the Latin import is the more mundane one :)
Just for clarity, “to occur to someone” doesn’t mean “jmdm. vorkommen” (and vice versa), even though it’s also subjective. It’s better translated with “jmdm. einfallen.”
Great point, I really should have stressed that way more that the two are NOT translations. Even my intern used it wrong because of me :)
I edited the paragraph, now. Tausend dank. Ich hasse es, wenn ich etwas so erkläre, dass dann Fehler passieren :)
Hey…. passt ‘ vorkommen ‘ auch bei Coming Out, wie bei Schwulen & Lesben usw? Iwo ist das auch figürlich, wie in dem Wein Beispiel.
Können ‘vorkommen’ & ‘merken’ auch die gleiche sein? Sie haben so eine Bedeutung wie ‘realisation’, ja?
zB:
Es kam mir vor, dass nichtsdestoweniger ein eigenes Wort ist.
Ich werde von der Tatsache bemerkt, dass nichtsdestoweniger ein Wort ist.
Verneine nicht, es zählt ^•^ … und was bedeutet nichtsdestoweniger & nichtsdestotrotz eigentlich denn? Die waren einfach Wörter in meinem Android Wörterbuch also… gesprochen xD
Hey Königin, nein für das Coming Out passt “vorkommen” nicht. Das ist einfach “Coming Out”, wie in English.
Und nein, “vorkommen” ist eigentlich nie das gleiche, wie “merken”. Ich habe das nicht gut erklärt. “vorkommen” ist wie “seem, give the impression” and there is some implication that it might not be the case.
Ops… Deutsch :).
Die Struktur ist:
– Es kommt mir so vor als ob …
Dein Beispiel mit “nichtsdestotrotz” macht nicht so viel Sinn, denn es ist ja offensichtlich und zweifelsfrei, dass es ein Wort ist.
Ach so, und eine Korrektur für “merken”.. DU bist die Person, die “(be)merkt”, nicht die Tatsache
– Ich bemerke die Tatsache, dass…
“nichtsdestoweniger” und “nichtsdestotrotz” sind genau das selbe. Und auch dasselbe wie “trotzdem” :)
Was wäre der Unterschied zwischen “…, komme ich mir vor wie ein Idiot” und “…, fühle ich mich wie ein Idiot”?
In American English, “Er ist mir an der Schlange zuvorgekommen” could be translated as “He cut me in line” or “He cut in front of me (in line)”.
No, “to cut in line” is “vordrängeln”. Maybe the example was not the best. “Zuvorkommen” just means that you come earlier, are faster with something. For example if your colleague finishes the project faster than you and hence his project was taken instead of yours, then you can say: “Er ist mir mit dem Projekt zuvorgekommen.”. Or in a discussion, you want to say something or bring up an argument, but somebody is always faster than you, man this guy: “Er kommt dir andauernd zuvor.”
Ah, thanks for clarifying. He always beats me to it. He always beats me to the punch.
Could this work? Eigentlich wollte *ich* das Peter sagen, aber da ist mir seine Freundin zuvorgekommen.
Yes, exactly. You got the meaning down. Your sentence is completely right and sounds most natural to boot. The only thing you have to be careful about with this verb, which I forgot to stress before, you absolutely need the indirect/dative object here. Without “mir” the sentence would not work. Of course you don’t necessarily have to beat a person to something. It can also be an occasion. Like a fire in your house: “Um einem Feuer zuvorzukommen, haben wir überall Rauchmelder installiert.” = “To be prepared for a fire, we installed fire alarm boxes everywhere.”
Hmmm… that’s not really a good example. Or at least the translation is misleading. It would be
– To be faster than a fire, we installed ….
I wouldn’t use “zuvorkommen” in that case anyway, but I mainly wanted to point out that people shouldn’t think of it as “to get prepared”
Great question.
“Sich fühlen wie” is more internal while “sich vorkommen wie” is always somehow connected to how people around you perceive you.
– Ich fühle mich gut.
You can say this about yourself even when you’re alone in a forest.
– Ich komme mir gut vor.
This wouldn’t make sense when you’re completely alone. It means more like “I perceive myself as a good person at the moment”
“sich fühlen” is the broader one, so it can be used for “sich vorkommen”. But “sich vorkommen” doesn’t work for stuff like “I feel tired” because this is not in any way connected to how others perceive you.
Let me know if that makes sense.
So suppose I’m alone in a forest, and I realize I didn’t tell anyone I was going into the forest. I feel stupid, but no one yet perceives me that way. Can I still say “Ich komme mir total bescheuert vor”?
Most of the examples on dict.cc are negative, e.g., sich dämlich vorkommen, blöd, lächerlich, etc. Is it usually used in a negative sense? Would anyone ever say “Ich komme mir vor wie ein Genie”, e.g., after acing a test?
Interesting question and interesting example. Iguess part of it really is how you feel. In the example with the forest you could say that to yourself and it would work. I still feel “sich fühlen” would be better and more egocentric (in a good way).
As for negativity… yes, “sich vorkommen” definitely often comes with some form of stupidity. And when it’s used with a positive, then it has this slight tone of “although it’s not true”. Usually, you’d use it with a positive word when you talk about others and how they fancy themselves (while you disagree)
– Ich kommt sich echt schlau vor.
– He feels soooo smart.
Maybe it helps if you think of the verb in a rather literal sense of “appearing in front of yourself”. “sich fühlen” is much more genuine sounding and in touch with your inner world than “sich vorkommen” which is more a description of how you perceive yourself in a certain moment.
– Er kommt sich echt schlau vor.
– Er hält sich für echt schlau.
Diese Sätze haben eine ähnliche Bedeutung, oder? Vielen Dank!
Ja, sehr ähnlich. Ich würde sagen “vorkommen” ist eher eine Momentaufnahme (in einer bestimmten Situation) und “sich für X halten” ist generell.
danke für die Aufklärung hier. toller Artikel!
Hi! As always, I enjoyed the mental stimulation, you and German together never disappoint. What a couple :P
I have 2 questions:
a) Bartender kommt hinter dem Tresen hervor.
In this phrase you are using the dative case for “Der Tresen” but to me it seems that it should be Akkusative case as it is an action and hinter is a double preposition so it should be able to take Akkusative. Even when I consider that this case would be because of “vor” (which I understand is not) it is also a double preposition.
b) sich vorkommen wie – feel like something
Maybe it is just me, but when I see reflexive verbs like this I automatically assume that it will be using the Akkusative reflexive pronouns but in this case they would be dative right? Actually I just realized that this is a piece of information that is always lost when we write the “infinitive form” of the reflexive verb. Oh man!
Vielen Dank!
Bran
Good question about the Dative.
It is a directed movement, we’re talking about and “hinter” is indeed a two way preposition. However, it does not connect the destination here. It connects the origin. So it does have to obey the standard rule for two way prepositions. But it does fit another pattern… that origin is connected with Dative.
– aus dem Haus
– von dir
– seitdem
all these prepositions that express some sort of origin use the Dative. This is not a “rule”, it’s just an observation. And our “hinter” fits right in.
Hoffe, das hilft.
Yes it does, thank you!
4.4 mindbend units. That is enough to shake off some cups from the bord. But not to stray you off course. Cool article.
I would like to add a word that can be really nice and rather harsh. I am speaking about: “zuvorkommen”. The verb itself is used the following way: “jemandem zuvorkommen” or in an example: “Er ist mir schon wieder an der Schlange zuvorgekommen.” = “He was faster at the queue than me again.” And the word is rather straight forward: “zuvor”=”before” so it is to reach a destination before somebody else. But with intent. Which is what I meant with harsh. Somebody intentionally takes up a place in front of yourself. That can be really annoying.
But what is really nice is the Partizip I of the verb. “Zuvorkommend” which does not mean presumptuous as one could assume as of the verb. But it means “courteous”, but in a very specific sense. To do something before it could be done by somebody else can be really nice. So opening the door for somebody before being asked, preparing a hot drink in winter to a guest or taking care of a hassle for somebody is “zuvorkommend”. And to tell somebody this would be a very nice way of thanking too: “Das war aber sehr zuvorkommend von Ihnen.” = “That was really nice of you to do.”
So just to check, does “jmdm. an der Schlange zuvorkommen” mean “cut in front of someone in line/in the queue” or just “beat someone to the line/queue”? Like, get into the line faster? Or actually step in front of somebody who’s already in line?
It’s only in a figurative sense, so it doesn’t work for cutting in line. “an der Schlange zuvorkommen” to me sounds like someone got something done faster while being at some sort of queue. It’s not a good context for the word, in my opinion.
Oh, never mind. I see you answered below.
If you would like to cut someone in line, you can always ask the person in front of you, “Darf ich mich vorstellen?”, and if they answer in the affirmative, you say, “Vielen dank!” and step in front of them. (A colleague did this to me at a buffet once. I was too flummoxed to be angry.)
Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone ask that directly :D.
I would be really really confused if they used “vorstellen” though, because to me it would sound like “Can I introduce myself”… the meaning of “sich vorstellen”. If I ask someone in supermarket if they want to go in front of me (because they have just one item for instance) I’d say “Willst du vor.” and I’d think people would just ask that
“Kann ich vor, ich bin in Eile?”
Maybe your colleague just wanted to introduce himself :D