Hello everyone,
and welcome to our German intensive summer boot camp.
Yeah, I know. You didn’t want this. You just wanted to relax, read a bit about a word, some examples, some history, some dumb jokes. But nope. Today it’s your turn.
So put on your sweatpants and get ready for a hefty work out about
Time Words
Or to be a little more specific
bevor or vor and other tricky words
Mixing up vor and bevor and also davor is a really common mistake; for beginners as well as advanced learners. And it’s the same story for nach, danach and nachdem.
Today, we’ll train exactly that… when to use which.
We’ve talked about this stuff in details in the mini series on time in German, particularly part 1, 5 and 6.
If you want to check those out, you can find them here on the course page.
But let’s go over it together real quick and see why we make mistakes and what we need to know to not make them anymore.
The theory
You can skip right to the exercise, if you’re confident. The purpose of the words I mentioned is to order things in time. We have two actions, A and B, and they don’t happen at the same time. Or in other words, one happens earlier than the other.
And there are two perspectives we can look at this:
- A before B.
- B after A.
The order of events is the same in both sentences. A is the earlier event. But we’re using different points of reference to express that.
Now, we have two points of view and two words. Just perfect, right? I’m sure you agree.
But German doesn’t. German is like
“I soooo need more words for this.”
Of course, you’re wondering why? And the reason is grammatical function.
There’s actually three ways to phrase a perspective.
- I brush my teeth after I eat dinner.
- I brush my teeth after dinner.
- I eat dinner. I’ll brush my teeth after.
And the colors kind of point toward the crucial differences.
In example number one, after connects a sentence, a verb. In sentence two, it connects an entity, a thing (dinner). And in sentence three, it connects nothing, but instead it is a stand-alone reference.
These are three absolutely distinct grammatical functions. The first one is a (subordinating) conjunction, the second one is a preposition and the last one is a temporal adverb.
If those jargon terms don’t tell you much, don’t worry. What matters is that you understand that you’re looking at distinct functions.
Because German, pedantic as it is, wants a distinct word for each function. That’s why we have to deal with six words in total
bevor and nachdem : connect a verbs/sentences
vor and nach : connect a nouns
davor/vorher and danach : a stand-alone reference
Now, if you’re not a you’re a real grammar nerd or you have a similar distinction in your language, then this distinction doesn’t come naturally to you at all.
And that’s exactly why we’re doing this exercise to you. The goal is not that you won’t make mistakes anymore, after. The main goal is to sensitize you for the difference. Raising awareness and understanding, if you will. Because once you really understand the distinction, you will start to “feel” it, develop an intuition for it.
Some of the examples are REALLY similar so the differences are really obvious.
Cool. So let’s paraphrase the distinctions again:
If before or after refer to something happening, then you need bevor or nachdem.
- before I go to bed
- after I wash my hands
If they refer to a noun, then you need vor or nach
- before dinner
- after class
And if before or after stand alone and refer to a prior sentence, or if they are combined with it/that, then use davor/vorher or danach.
- I’ll come. But before (that), I want to sleep.
- I eat. I’ll sleep after (that).
A special case are -ing forms in English, the so called gerunds. They tend to be translated to a normal sentence in German, but if they’re really just the -ing-form you can use a noun.
- Before eating I wash my hands.
- Vor dem Essen wasche ich mir die Hände.
- Before eating my pizza, I wash my hands.
- Bevor ich meine Pizza esse, wasche ich…
Vor dem Essen meiner Pizza…. grammatically correct, but no one talks that way.
Oh, and one quick word about vorher and davor which both mean before (that) and they’re pretty similar. Davor is more “pointy” and the real before that while vorher leans toward first. Like… I’m gonna do B but first I want to do A. If you mix these two up, it’s not a big deal.
Cool.
And now I think we’re ready to go :)
The exercise
I’ll give you a sentence in English with before or after (or both) in it.
Option one for you is to translate them to German.
You can use the text field for your version, but it doesn’t check what you enter :). It’s just so you can compare.
The solution is in the audio and you can also see it by clicking the circle O.
If translating them is too much, then just click the “?” icon and you’ll see the German version with a gap, so you just have to pick the right word.
Remember:
- bevor and nachdem are used for verbs
- vor and nach are for nouns
- davor/vorher and danach are used as a stand-alone
Viel Erfolg :)!!!
***
“You have to say that before (right away).”
“Das musst du ____ sagen.”
“Das musst du vorher sagen.”
“Yeah, but where were you after that? After you were at the bar…”
“Ja, aber wo warst du _____? _____ du in der Bar warst…”
“Ja, aber wo warst du danach? Nachdem du in der Bar warst…”
***
Yeay!!! You made it!!!
How did you do? Was it hard or easy? Where there any that you struggled with in particular? Let me know all your questions in the comments and I’ll try to clear them up there.
Hope you enjoyed this and see you next time.
Vielen Dank Emanuel. Sehr schöne Übungen! Wort Ordnung ist mein Problem!
Was ist denn dein Problem genau mit dem Wort “Ordnung”?
Gib mir ein bisschen Details und ich versuche zu helfen.
ZB: N. 8. Mein Antwort: Der Film war schrecklich, aber ich habe das vorher gewusst. Und
N. 19. Moi: Nach dem Training trinkt Maria immer einen Smoothie.
HILFE! HILFE!! Ich bin ins Wasser und schwimmen kann ich nicht!
Danke für die Rettung!
Ohhhh… ich hatte verstanden, dass du ein Problem mit dem WORT “Ordnung” hast :D.
Wie hättest du diese beiden Beispiele geordnet?
Also, die sind OKAY? Die Lösungen sind ein bisschen anders.
Ja, die sind okay. Es gibt oft mehr als eine Möglichkeit, und ich kann nicht immer alle aufschreiben, deshalb wähle ich eine aus.
Hi,
Vielen Dank für tolle Übungen mit diesen Zeitwörten. Meine Frage ist ,, wo man das verb mit ,,before oder nachdem ” setzt?
“bevor” und “nachdem” machen einen Nebensatz, also die gleiche Struktur wie bei “dass” oder “weil”.
Hilft das?
chicken sandwich
With salad.
Thanks so much for the wonderful post and exercises!
Gerne :)
The excercises were super useful, after doing some of them, it was very intuitive the reasoning. Thank you!!!!
That’s awesome!! I’m glad to hear that :)
Great mental work out. I‘ll try to comback to this once I reached B1 level. Thanks.
Thanks so much for the workout! Quick question, it is possibly that this is embarrassingly obvious: why do #13-15 use sollen in Kunjunktiv II (I think?) and #16 in present?
Oh man, I don’t know why I forgot to answer this one!!
Yeah, 13-15 are conditional, and 16 is present. I could also use conditional here, but the original saying is more “authoritarian” sounding in German, hence “soll”. Like… doctor’s orders or grandma’s orders.
Hi, thanks for this, helpful as ever. Just wondering,Number 3: “Ich will in Ruhe einen Espresso trinken, bevor ich anfange zu arbeiten.” That sounds normal to me, it’s how I’d say it automatically, but my grammar brain is telling me that if ‘bevor’ is a subordinating conjunction, the conjugated verb should go to the end. “Ich will einen Espresso in Ruhe trinken, bevor ich zu arbeiten anfange.” My girlfriend (native speaker, zero grammar help) says they both sound right. What’s the deal please?
Ah, sorry, I see someone is asking exactly the same thing as me.
It’s a common question, but if someone has asked it here on this article (which I don’t know)… I don’t expect people to read all the comments, that’d be crazy :).
Yes, both are okay. “zu”-constructs tend to be treated as separate phrases (like “weil” or “dass”) unless they’re really short. Then they also get integrated, but she’s right that both ways are idiomatic. You can find more about that in my article on main sentences:
https://yourdailygerman.com/first-position-sentence/
The “Tao of End” section :)
I dont think it was mentioned, but vor and nach + dative,
wherewas bevor and nachdem V2end and vorher and danach do nothing, or could be said they invert… am I correct in observing this? Well I guess it is obvious for those who get what a subordinating conjunction is :D Great excercise, I loved it
Yup, you got the categories right :)
Pretty confused about number 11. Your version reads: “Thomas trinkt immer einen Espresso, bevor er anfängt zu arbeiten” I’m inclined to say “bevor er zu arbeiten anfängt.” Bevor inverts word order, so I don’t understand why the conjugated verb is still in the 2nd position. Should the conjugated verb go at the end of this clause?
Good question! And a common one, too.
I’ve talked a bit about this in my article on comparisons, but I am at the moment completing my mini series on sentence structure and I’ll address this in details there.
The zu-construct is treated like it is a side sentence (like a dass-sentence, for example). And those are commonly put AFTER the final verb.
– Ich habe dir erzählt, dass ich gestern im Kino war.
The verb in the “bevor”-sentence looks like it is in second position but only because there’s no other stuff there.
– … bevor ich wieder anfange zu arbeiten.
Putting the “wieder” after “anfange” would be very wrong.
You CAN also include the zu-construct like you suggested. IT sounds good because it’s short. But the longer the zu-part gets the better it is to put it after the verb.
And in spoken German, the trend is toward putting zu-parts always separate.
Hope that helps. As I said, I’ll talk about this more soon in my series.
Yes it does! I figured that some type of Nebensatz situation could explain what was going on. I’m honestly glad you can create a side sentence with the zu construct. I think that will be helpful with maintaining my train of thought, especially when speaking. Can’t wait to dive into the new article.
Actually, I just posted it, so here’s the link:
https://yourdailygerman.com/first-position-sentence/
I ended up not talking THAT much about it, but it’s at least a few examples :)
I saw this sample sentence somewhere:
“Es gibt einen Fluchtweg, vor dem aber ich zögere.”
Can you use “davor” here instead or is that wrong?
You’d have to specify that a little for me to answer. Instead of what, exactly?
Sorry–a variation saying
“Es gibt einen Fluchtweg, davor aber ich zögere.”
(I assume that
“Es gibt einen Fluchtweg, aber ich zögere davor.”
works?)
The second version you made does work.
The first one looks like you tried the second, but messed up the structure. Da-words do not work as relative pronouns. The first version would work with “wovor”.
Super helpful! Thank you. I have struggled a bit with the group word order, e.g
“Italiener machen *vor dem Abendessen* gern “Aperitivo”
*Vor der Arbeit* trinkt Thomas immer einen Kaffee.
I’ll get there, eventually… ;)
Yeah, don’t expect yourself to get it all correct :).
Have you read my mini series about Word order by any chance?
Hi, a question about anfangen in questions 3 and 7:
how standard/correct is it to use anfangen as non-separable? Thanks
I don’t understand the question. “anfangen” is a separable verb, so treating it like non-separable is 100% wrong.
That’s the question actually. I am surprised by “ich anfange”. Shouldn’t it separate?
Well, it depends on what kind of sentence you have.
– Ich fange damit an.
– Ich sage, dass ich damit anfange.
This is pretty basic stuff. If this is new to you, you should definitely read the Essentials series of my online course.
Hi Emanuel, big fan here!
I have a question about bevor, more precisely about its subjunctive nature. In the third example, the correct answer was: “Ich will in Ruhe einen Espresso trinken, bevor ich anfange zu arbeiten.”
Since bevor is a subjunctive conjunction, shouldn’t anfange go at the end as such: “Ich will in Ruhe einen Espresso trinken, bevor ich zu arbeiten anfange.” ?
Danke im Voraus!
Good question.
Your version also works. The thing is that we’re essentially looking at two subordinate clauses here:
– bevor ich anfange
– zu arbeiten.
It’s fairly common to put two clauses after one another instead of splicing one into the other.
Here, since the “zu arbeiten” one is super short and barely a clause, both versions sound fine. But as soon as you make the arbeiten-part longer, it should come after the first clauses
– …, bevor ich anfange, an meiner Master-Arbeit zu arbeiten. (idiomatic)
– … , bevor ich an meiner Masterarbeit zu arbeiten anfange. (not wrong but hard to follow)
This was awesome. More of these please!
sehr gut
Thanks!!!
Das war ein brillianter Test. Danke fürs hochladen!
No. 7 ……die Oper beginnt ( statt anfängt). Ist es okay?
No. ˋ10 Thomas trinkt immer einen Espresso vor der Arbeit´ ist es okay auch?
Ja, beides total richtig :)
Warum sagt man _der_ Smoothie? (Wegen “der Shake”, vielleicht?) Das Wort kommt mir irgendwie weiblich vor (mit der “-ie” Endung). Oder Neutrum, weil man sagen könnte, dass es sich im Englischen um ein Diminutiv handelt. Ich hätte dreimal raten müssen, bevor<–(!) ich auf maskulin gekommen wäre. :-)