Hallo ihr alle,
wie geht’s?
Don’t worry. I’m not gonna start doing list posts here. I actually need your help with something.
What’s going on
A language school recently emailed me asking me to spread the word. I was like “Yeah, that’s gonna be 50.000 dollars.” and they were like “Oh. we were thinking like… for free.” and I was just like laughing at them.
Okay not really. I actually thought that was a good idea. Not doing just promo but doing an honest and objective review of the school with a little surprise for you. I asked them if they’re interested in this kind of thing and they said yes, so I decided to give it a try. Now, how do you review a language school. The best would be to sneak in undercover and take a course and be a really complicated student. Maybe some day I can do that. For now it’s gonna be a little less investigative. I’ll check out their offers and prices, visit their rooms to get a feel for the vibe and, and this is the most important part, do a little interview. The idea with behind the interview, or lets call it a questionnaire, is to give you guys an impression of the school that goes beyond the facts you can find on the webpage. What kind of people are working there? What’s the vibe? Does it “feel” right? It should be more than just some stock Q and A like
“What’s your teaching philosophy?”
“We at Generic School 1423 believe that teaching is always also learning.”
So boooring. I have some different questions in mind. They will hate me for it :).
But I’m not a German learner. You are. You know best what questions you would have for a language school. So let’s draw up the questionnaire together:
What questions would you want ask a potential
language school before making a decision?
All questions are fine… Can I make a certificate at the school? If your school were a person following a specific diet, would it be Paleo or Vegan? And what’s with the stupid colors? Meh… the last one is probably not a good example. But seriously, let me know all your questions, even the really crazy ones, in the comments so we get a nice pool to chose from and I also know what to look for when reviewing the school. Oh and let me know what you think about reviewing schools. Picking the right school can be really tough if there are a lot of choices, but on the other hand I know that most of you are NOT in Berlin, so maybe it is super boring. But I don’t know. And we have a really cool set of questions we can do that with any language school really.
So, I’m really looking forward to your questions and I’ll see you all later this week with a real article.
Bis dann und danke!
UPDATE:
I sent the school the questionnaire I compiled with your help (here it is) and I haven’t heard from them since. Well, one intern told me that the intern who contacted me wasn’t working there anymore and she would be the new intern and the people who could answer the survey were still on vacation and so on and so on.
Maybe they are all very busy and forgot. Or maybe they just wanted some cheap promo and shied away when they saw that answering learners’ concerns actually takes some time. Either way, the school is the Sprachenatelier in Berlin.
If you’re now like “This school seems awesome” then you’ll find it on Google.
PS.: A big thank you to the people who have donated recently. You’re awesomazing! And to Youssef: German will stop bullying you eventually :). It just tests your patience. Seriously, danke!!
Gruetzi! I don’t have a question for the Mystery Language School, but a preference: I want a class situation where there is a lot of conversation and discussion about real world situations. The instructor is there to guide the conversation and make frequent corrections. I also prefer when a new word is written down on the white board so I can see it. I’m a visual learner, so I like to see what I’m learning, and then put it to use in a conversation.
Oh, and thanks for a great site. I enjoy reading your posts, although I admit that some times you write more than I have time to read in one sitting. Still, better too much than too little information!
I second this. My vocabulary and understanding only started to increase since taking on reading real world material. I am reading Krimis, along with reading an article or two from Der Spiegel every day. The only thing missing is an immersion opportunity to hone my listening skills and my speaking skills. I am considering a German language school here in the US.
Yeah, reading is really THE best thing you can do. At any level (well, except absolute beginner). People often plateau between B1 and B2 because they don’t read enough. For German, at least.
A billion percent agreed… for any language… to me, it’s the only thing that can take you to second language level without it taking 10 years living in the country.
The odd thing is that for English, which is my second language I barely did any reading at all. I had 9 years in school after which I was barely able to give directions (though lots had been seeded in my brain to bloom later) and I couldn’t understand movies at all. I learned it by listening to rap and watching movies with subtitles . But reading… some in university but that was slooooooooow and cumbersome.
I think English is a bit special in so far as that it has a comparatively small every day vocabulary. You need to know a lot of idiomatic uses of course but all you gotta do as a learner is add uses to verbs like “put”. German is difficult in that regard because the vocab people use is more diversified. Like… you use this verb for that aspect of getting and that totally different verb for the other and then that one for the third. I had a friend who could converse fine and his grammar knowledge was top notch. I talked him into skipping the B2 level to go straight to C1 (after B1.2). He could hold up but it was hard work for him and the reason was… vocabulary. Only vocabulary. He had a new list for of new words every day. And they didn’t read crazy stuff. Just magazine articles.
I guess had I really cared about English in school and read a few books I could have gotten to my current level much faster. And for French and Italian I basically did 60% reading, 20% rote learning of vocab, 10% listening and 10% grammar (no exercise, just theory). And it worked perfectly.
Agreed!
English is definitely a special case… it’s supposedly one of the easiest languages to learn, since it’s so simplistic.
It does have its subtleties as well though, which one can’t really learn as such, but has to find out through exposure – like, what do you say in this situation or in that situation… what kind of response is expected by each group you’re speaking to… how do you insinuate something, and how do you specify subtle tones (especially in writing). I think that really goes for any language.
German is especially tough in that regard… maybe because it’s such a dynamic language – in that you’re (I’m) often fooled into thinking you can put this word and that word together and it’s still gonna work. People are gonna understand you, but they’ll immediately know you’re not a local. I mean, at least there’s a billion different dialects, but if you don’t have the intonation and melody for it, no one’s gonna fall for THAT excuse – hehe, such a shame!
My experience in learning English was quite special though, so for that language I really can’t say… there was just too much input to know which one helped best. In German, I’ve definitely noticed an improvement though – a bit after I finished reading the first book (Erebos – which was §%$%§$ hard in the beginning), I noticed a huge improvement in my word and phrase vocabulary. There was an even bigger improvement with the next books – the Sanctus trilogy by Simon Toyne. I find it fascinating how that works. But again, special case, since I’m living and working in Germany – so maybe it all plays together in that the book serves to create the connections in my brain. Keine Ahnung.
It’s all great though, I think – reading, listening to music, watching TV (super good and super hard LOL). And oh gawd, I don’t think one can avoid Grammar in German. At some point I’ll buckle up and read through my Grammar books and through your Grammar posts ;)
Does the class include activities outside of the classroom? Projects? Homework? Are classes all-day or an hour two per day?
Are there any extracurricular activities, like city tours or excursions?
On a scale of one to ten (with ten being extremely and one being not at all) how practical is your German Language school and what factors contributed to your rating?
How strict the professors are towards students? It often happens that a group of good students has one slacker who is constantly ruining the mood and getting on everybody else’s nerves for not willing to fully commit and participate. If professor is not strict enough, that will pass unnoticed and other students will suffer.
Very interesting point!!
Is the program conversationally based or traditional 4 skills approach (reading, writing, listening, grammar)?
How much grammar study is done?
(Basically, if I want to know how to speak German am I going to be able to do so better after the program or not?)
Is there an entrance test so we will be grouped according to ability? (An intermediate-advanced student doesn’t wantlots repeated for beginners)
I think this is an interesting topic. I am the incoming Treasurer at a local German School (Saturday mornings only) and this year at our campus we more than doubled our Adult student count from 6 students at an intermediate level to 19 students between beginning and intermediate. We would like to split our classes but was unable to find another teacher willing to work Saturday mornings.
What city is your school at… maybe somebody reading this is looking for exactly that (though it would be quite the coincidence)
In class now, so I’ve got some suggestions. Doubt they’ll tell you all this, but it interests me.
Quantitative:
# Students / class (avg., max)
cost (per mo., per hour)
what level do they teach up to (c1 or c2?) and do the teach to the tests (specifically train the teachers to help students pass testdaf or the other one)
[b1 integration may be a joke, but the other shit is not.. for me at least]
retention rate.. through b1, b2, c1, c2? (no one gives this, so I assume it would be abysmal, but hey..)
Qualitative:
Teachers: how many, how much experience, do they teach the same book/which? (or no books at all?), how does the place encourage a healthy environment for the faculty? do they fraternize with eachother? their backgrounds?
how much do they charge for coffee?
doppelgingered here, do they teach for tests, shamelessly
do they hold people back? (important because language school is a joke often, with teachers repeating the same shit. I should know because I’m one of the idiots who is sometimes grateful that the tests dont mean shit)
what makes them special / what are they trying to achieve?
sit in on a class perhaps.
Wow, never would have thought about retention rate of students but that is actually REALLY interesting. I’m definitely gonna ask that. Thanks
How often will the instructor be listening to us speak? Small-group or partner-work is well and good, but if we’re students talking with students we can’t know how to correct each other! Best case scenario we don’t learn what’s right, worse case we pick up someone else’s bad grammar.
Oh, I agree… the last language course I had was Finnish and I really hated these “discussions” in small groups. It always felt like a waste of time, because there’s basically no authority to give you feedback.
I totally agree with this – this has been my experience too. You kind of try to speak for a bit, then it fizzles out because you all run out of words.
What are the backgrounds of the students of a typical class? When I took some classes in Vienna each class was made up of students of many nationalities and while a good many did speak some English, some didn’t and so the teacher and us students had no choice but to use German, however basic, which really made the class all that much better.
How much of the language’s popular culture is included in the lessons? Meaning, tidbits of information which greatly enhance one’s self confidence and hence the fun of traveling to the target country or countries which speak the language. Examples: Eiswein. Bierstube. Weisswurst. Usw.
I believe language learning is a full-time job …. so here is my question.
Do you have a plan or a vision or a brand new approach which can make the German language(for example) a part of the my life?
Nice one!!!
Based on my (fairly long-ago) experience of language school, as well as that of colleagues more recently…
– What sort of students are your bread and butter? (Is there a German equivalent for that? I mean to ask what sorts of students are the ones the school relies on to pay the bills, what its “staple” students are.) How diverse is any given class likely to be? What are most students here to accomplish?
– How much flexibility do teachers have to set the pace or emphasis of class sessions? Are they required to cover certain material or work through a specific curriculum in clearly defined time spans?
– Basically, do you teach the tests or the language?
– Is the coffee any good? Or is there somewhere close where you can get good coffee?
– How much teacher turnover do you experience? (That is, how often do you have to replace teachers?)
I also like the questions about extracurricular stuff, excursions, etc. But I think I’d be most concerned to know what my chances are of (a) being in a class with students who are also trying to actually become functional adults in a German-speaking context, as opposed to hungover Swiss kids, (b) having the same teacher(s) for any length of time, and (c) getting instruction that is shaped primarily, for better or worse, by the quality of the teacher(s) more than by the policies of the school.
I’d be interested in knowing if the courses have a rigid time span and speed, how much emphasis is placed on grammar (for example if you first learn to speak and then later or in between learn the rules), how long it usually takes a good student to achieve proficiency.
I like the method used in many international schools (using things from imagery to music), since it’s extremely efficient (fluency in under a year).
Most importantly, I’d want to know if you speak and converse from the get-go.
Love your blog btw. Rock on!
Oops I didn’t mean to post it as a reply, but as a standalone comment :)
Ps.: I’m a huge fan of mango languages. I think their method is amazing and it works wonderfully for me.
Never heard of that yet. Maybe it’s worth a review. Their image film is a bit generic I have to say… what is it that makes it work for you?
Oh here’s the link btw, if anyone wants to take a look:
https://www.mangolanguages.com/
Really? That’s cool, then, I love introducing it to people! I’ve followed it and used it since they were in Beta, way back in 2007.
I’ll try to explain it (Achtung: very long, gushing paragraphs ahead) :)
I think an important thing to highlight is the purpose of Mango… it’s not a course where you go to learn eeeverything about a language and its grammar. It focuses on getting you to speak and understand the language as quickly as possible. But by the end of the three courses, you should be pretty comfortable with the language, and be able to speak fluently.
They basically teach through real-life usage. It starts off very simple and gets you to internalize the most basic words and verbs. And during the next chapters, starts putting those together with other words and challenging you to mix them into new sentences.
Grammar is taught implicitly via usage, with a few explanatory comments here and there.
The other key to it is repetition. Sometimes ad nauseum. But what I find great about it is that you don’t just stupidly repeat the same thing – in the beginning it’ll repeat and repeat, but afterwards they only ask it again precisely at the point when you’re forgetting it – to make the knowledge [more] permanent.
In the middle of the repetition is where those challenges come in. Basically they ask you “How do/would/do you think you say xxxx in a formal/informal setting to a man/woman?”. This is to both: make you aware of gender, formal/informal, etc usages; and to make you internalize the words/verbs by making you use them in a new way.
What works for me is basically all of the above. It’s utterly fascinating to see how well it works (for me at least). I studied the first few chapters of greek back in 07 and could still remember a lot of it years later.
As every course though, you have to be consistent about it. I personally like an hour or at least a chapter a day.
—
So now that I’m done gushing about it, ’cause I do honestly love the damn thing – you can always try the first chapter of every language, though as I said, that’s gonna be very simple… you start seeing the genius of it in the later chapters. The good thing is that it’s subscription-based nowadays… it’s like 20 dollars a month, which give you access to all languages. Back in the day it was about 200-300 for all 3 Units.
In the US, there’s also libraries which offer it for free.
Wrapping up, I’d definitely recommend it to anyone wanting to travel somewhere and be able to do everything in the local language, or as a starter to then polish off at a more traditional school or using books. I think it should take you to a B1 or B2 by the end of all units.
I shamefully admit I still haven’t finished a full course – I tend to jump around between languages. I did however battle-test it with German and most recently with Italian. I have a slightly unfair advantage by being a native portuguese speaker, but it allowed me to navigate around Italy surprisingly well (I think I did most of the first unit *blush*).
Anyway, I’m fond of the core-words theory (?) that once you know the main X words in a language, you can get through most situations already. That’s part of the reason why I think it works that well :)
OK, now I’m done. Hope it helps :)
Thanks for these insights:)
@Mayer: I like the sound of that. I think the repetition is really important. I’m struggling with not having really bedded down my early vocab before having to learn heaps more, so I feel like I’m going backwards now.
Great questions. Especially the one about “bred and butter” students is really interesting, I think. In summer, there’s a surge of young Europeans flooding into Berlin to party… and learn some German in a one month “kind of intensive” course. I had a student once who was taking a course in July with 25 students. In September they were down to six, same school, same teacher, just with the “stop over students”. I would recommend not to take a course in summer because that’s when schools basically try raking in the rent for the winter.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a language school specifically targeting adults that are serious about the language. Maybe that’s a niche worth exploring … we could call it “Managerman” :)
“Do you teach the tests or the language?” – Best question I’ve read so far. A “grading orientation” and a “learning orientation” are not in fact related (one could be self taught), plus, the focus on grades only, creates an “addiction” for the easiest possible tasks, not that grades shouldn’t exist -don’t get me wrong- but it shouldn’t be the main focus when you’re teaching something… This blog for example gives me no grades (You have no power here Emanuel…lol, joking) but I learn a lot reading it. Anyway, I think that question summarize my point of view, but that’s just my opinion. I hope it is not a super hipster opinion though. Thanks berlingrabers, that was really deep…lol. Greetings!!
A- , well done Alan
Hah. In your face :D
LOL. This comment reallt made me laugh.
really*… I’m a bit drunk, sorry
“bit drunk” is really no reason to apologize ;)
I learned Spanish for a while at a local school here in Chennai, India, and had to drop out because there wasn’t a quorum for them to continue to the next level. And when I tried to go to another school, they had a different set of levels and would not accept my certificate. So my questions would be:
a) What is the minimum number of students you require to conduct a class?
b) Is my certificate transferable to another school?
2. Do you have native German speakers as teachers?
How much real-world material is used in class? (I’d much rather work using short news articles rather than stilted fake dialogues — that feel dated pretty much as soon as they’re printed — from textbooks.)
How committed are the teachers to using only German (or, for beginners, as much German as possible) as the language of instruction? (I really hate when teachers give in to those students who can’t be bothered to formulate their questions in German, even partly — I’ve had this even in a B2-level class!)
How much leeway do teachers have to incorporate suggestions from students into the syllabus? (If none of us want to learn German for business, but we have other suggestions for topics, can we skip the chapter on office German?)
When it comes to the question of German only vs. English where necessary, people seem to be really divided. Some want NO English and plenty of schools advertise their using only German. But other people (me included) HATE it when teachers try to explain meta stuff in the target language, when it would be so much quicker in English (or whatever is the language everyone understands). That only applies to beginner level though… using English in a B2 class is ridiculous.
I don’t know how to phrase these as questions, but here’s my take. I took multiple years of French in high school and college and the classes were always a huge breeze for me, because it was just memorizing words and phrases. What I’ve found difficult about learning German on my own is there is more to language learning that just memorizing literal word translations. The hardest part for me has been “thinking” in that language. Currently, while I’m doing well at reading and writing I’m struggling with speaking and listening, because there isn’t a time limit to a reading a book, but there when listening to someone talk. I currently hear words, translate them in my head to English, think of the response in English, translate it back to German and talk. This makes conversations very difficult and if they say more than one sentence at a time I can’t keep up, because I’m still working on translating the first spoken sentence.
I would ask what they do to help you actually SPEAK and UNDERSTAND the language as opposed to just memorize lists of translation and grammar rules. Specifically, so that you can understand real people speaking and real speeds. A lot of the audio books and software programs I have used only give you one slowed down sentence at a time. I haven’t found any software that really challenges you to understand multiple at once. The Goethe Institute has some ok stuff. I did like the Michaela in Deutschland series.
Somethings I found useful in language learning so far:
– One of my college French professors made us record us speaking on cassettes and turn them in and she graded how well we pronounced words. Proper pronunciation is very important when speaking a new language.
– Michel Thomas’s audio book courses do a great job of explaining how words are formed and the meaning inside of the parts of the word. This blog does a good job of that as well. To many courses just drill words into your mind with straight memorization. This is great for studying for a test, but like my French when you don’t use those words you quickly forget them. I aced all of my French classes, but I remember very little today. Some of these German words I learned by understanding their underlying meaning and how they came to be I will never forget.
One bad thing about sit down language classes is you have to learn at the pace of the slowest learner. What would a course offer to help you excel and move forward a rapid pace compared to other traditionally taught classes?
Your comment made me remember a thing we had in school called “Sprachlabor”. There, we did essentially that… record ourselves and the teacher would grade it. I really hated it back then, going through puberty with the voice and all, but I think it’s a good idea. Pronunciation doesn’t get enough attention in my opinion. Knowing flow and rhythm of a language can make a huge difference in speaking and hearing.
I’d want to know the motivation of most of the students in the class. I’ve been in language classes where most people are there for college credit vs. other classes where most people want to learn it because of family, cultural interest, etc. For me, I’ve found language classes more effective if I’m surrounded by others who are genuinely interested in the language and culture, not just taking a class for credit.
How seriously the school takes assigning students to different classes. Many language schools organise class groups based on what is convenient for the school rather than assigning the appropriate level, with negative consequences for students of all levels.
Will new students be admitted to the group midway through the course – this can be pretty disruptive.
The policy on homework – if the school takes homework seriously and actively discourages students from failing to hand in assignments. Many schools have a lackadaisical approach to this, at best, and the result can be that no-one bothers to do homework. A clear policy on homework benefits everyone (in my experience)
I’d want to know what topics and registers/situations (informal, formal, academic, etc) they’re covering, because language isn’t one-size-fits-all. Do you want to get around as a tourist? Or read German philosophy? Or for work? These would be very different things. OK so reading philosophy is not a beginner course, but a course which is at least pointing you roughly in the direction you want to go helps.
Also, with an interest in linguistics, I love lots of grammar stuff, but that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. (And to be honest I don’t think it has done as much to help me actually speak as would just practising conversation with someone who is fluent.) So that’s something I’d ask about – but which answer you want depends on who you are.
I hate all the testing-for-the-sake-of-testing, which seems unavoidable at formal institutions with bureaucratic requirements. I’d rather have things like: regular Hausaufgabe of writing a few paragraphs, a quick short answer test which is marked in class, a 5 min conversation with the teacher. So I guess I’d want to know what kind of testing they do, and whether it’s aimed specifically at helping the learner by giving them feedback on what they know, or is it more about ticking a box to satisfy bureaucracy.
I am attending a B1 course at VHS. This is the first time I ever sit in a classroom to learn German, but I started to learn on my own 2 years ago, using internet resources like DW, Slow german, LingQ and of course my favorite blog German is easy. My classmates at VHS have been together since A1. I am ahead of them in comprehension, reading speed and pronunciation, but I have gained a whole lot of confidence to speak. Fortunately I have a native speaker teacher.
When I was looking for a school, I was interested in – Mündlichen Deutschkurs – Einstufungstest – Muttlersprachler Lehrer(in)- Spät einsteingen möglichkeit- Zertifikat B1.
This is the reply I got from a private school:
Liebe Eva,
danke für Deine Anfrage. Leider haben wir kein mehr mündliche Deutschkurs. Wir bieten nur Intensivkurs Deutsch. Ja er kann einfach am 3. September einsteigen. Sie wird diesen Einstufungstest schreiben wenn sie kommen wird.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Wait, is that literally what they replied? Because there are some serious mistakes in there which a school should NOT do :D
Yes, I copy-pasted the message… :/ even I could pick those mistakes!
Obviously I didn’t attend that school.
Oh wow. I kind of didn’t want to say how wrong the message is so as to not hurt your feelings in case it had been your translation :). But now that I can speak freely… the message is AWFUL. It’s “Google-translate-bad”. I don’t even understand where some of the mistakes come from, they’re so random and bad.
hi, so I’ve been reading comments here and I read the letter, and did my best to make sense of it, but you guys say it has serious mistakes and I didn’t notice anything, so that shows how much of a beginner I am haha. can you explain what is wrong? I don’t want learn these mistakes thinking it is proper german :)
btw this is what i think the letter says, i didn’t cheat
Liebe Eva,
Dear Eva
danke für Deine Anfrage. Leider haben wir kein mehr mündliche Deutschkurs. Wir bieten nur
thank you for your question. Sorry, we don’t have (?) German (course) anymore. We offer only
Intensivkurs Deutsch. Ja er kann einfach am 3. September einsteigen. Sie wird diesen Einstufungstest schreiben
intensive-german (course). It starts September 3 . You will take a placement test
wenn sie kommen wird.
if you come.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Cheers,
Okay so here it goes:
– Liebe Eva danke für Deine Anfrage. (ok)
– Leider haben wir kein mehr mündliche Deutschkurs.
grammatically correct would be: Leider haben wir keinen mündlichen Deutschkurs mehr.
Actually correct (idiomatic, fitting) would be:
Leider bieten wir keinen mündlichen Deutschkurs mehr an.
– Wir bieten nur Intensivkurs Deutsch.
correct would be: wir bieten nur einen Intensivkurs Deutsch (an).
– Ja er kann einfach am 3. September einsteigen.
(who the hell is “er”… maybe that would be clear if I had the mail before)
– Sie wird diesen Einstufungstest schreiben wenn sie kommen wird.
(whaaat, now it’s a she? It was just “er”? Something ain’t right there. Also: “diesen Einstufungstest” … which one? They haven’t mention one yet so you can’t use “diesen”. There’s a comma missing before “wenn”. Idiomatic and fitting would be “Sie wird am ersten Tag einen Einstufungstest schreiben.”)
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Well, I guess that wasn’t THAT much but the few ending mistakes are nothing a native speaker would ever do, the pronoun switch from “er” to “sie” is awful and the mail as a whole just makes a bad impression.
cool, I did notice the he -> she and since it didn’t make sense, I just figured er and sie must’ve meant it. thanks for helping me :)
My first language was Spanish. I now know very little Spanish, and that’s even after studying it again for four years in high school. I am currently studying German and haven’t learned much beyond my first year. The reason for this loss of language is a lot of settings, both social and academic, don’t require you to use the foreign language studied. Even in class, lectures will rush through a topic so fast there is no time to practice, then a year later they are surprised why you have forgotten everything they “taught” you. So, after that long explanation, my question would be, “how do you plan on having students use what they know, both inside and outside of class.?” After all, at least within the context of learning a language, practicing is learning.
I’ve read all the comments. The questions in them are interesting and live. I would also ask or better visit a lesson and see how much time of the lesson a teacher vs students speaks. What methods are used to put a student into position as a subject of the lesson and by that motivate for active initiatively using the language. How is organized the class space? Do students move during the lesson? How many students per teacher are there in class? Does the school have possibility to have more than one teacher at a lesson? Do the teachers take into consideration the individual level of every student and work in the zone of their maximum development?
I hope I’ve managed to express my ideas clearly. It would be interesting to read your school review in German.
Definitely watch a few lessons at different levels!
My question is, how do they differentiate between students of different abilities/work speeds? I did a course once at the Goethe Institut once which was incredibly boring and frustrating because the teacher set lots of reading/writing activities, which I would finish quickly and there would be nothing else to do. In other courses there have been extension activities.
Also, how do they make it fun? And how do they encourage students to communicate with each other in German? This makes so much difference.
Sitting in on several lectures would take too much time, unfortunately. Also, I’m not unsure as to whether it’s a good method.
Teachers are likely to act differently with a “reporter” in the room. Maybe they even put up a show (though a review certainly doesn’t have enough leverage to make them do that). Also, every teacher/group has bad days where there’s just no flow whatsoever. If you happen to sit in on such a day, that would be an unfair judgement then. Ultimately I think you can get a bad course at ANY school. There’s always a degree of chance involved.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts!!
How big is their video + transcript library? I couldn’t say anything in German until I used that method of watching videos with subtitles (and pause function) for a few months. Do they have an audio + transcript library? How many titles of beginner-intermediate reading material do they have? Do they have a comics library? Do they have short-length courses for people who can only do a few weeks of intensive study at a time? Do they provide online courses?
Wollte nur mal kurz danke sagen für die Spende. Ich hab mich super gefreut :). Viel Spaß weiter beim Kurs (und Test). Und beim Sprechen sowieso!
Students making videos of themselves, introducing themselves, making dialogues out of a recent topic, memorizing German songs,. I also think that having a common book, which they can read in advanced, so they will be prepapred for the topic the next day.
Hallo :)
I think one important part when you are adult and want to learn a language is the material that they use. Example which book they follow or do they have their own material. If it is a book maybe take a peek to it before when thinking getting to the lessons. In my city there is two “Volkshochschule” I don’t know what they are called in English. But the level on them is totally different than what it is in schools or universities. Because the adult level varies a lot, because here they are not restricted to your German level like B1 or so. I don’t think in my city is any private language schools. Oh yeah one important thing also, how many hours in week they offer the lessons. Is there courses that would be like two times a week. Example other more grammar and reading and then other day more group work and talking. I am still afraid of German texts, my vocabulary is so small, even i have been learning German for almost 3 years in the University and I think I am B1 level now. It is really difficult to find some “forum” to search someone speaking German with me. I think language schools should also support ho you could bring your skills further like teach places that you could speak the language that you are learning or form some groups or something. Just my thoughts :) Maybe if my follow German learners would give me tips where to find “buddy” to speak German with I would be happy :)
I know there are several sites that help you find a language buddy… I just can’t think of them right now, damn it. I’ll let you know if they come back to me…
I’ve got an account on Mixxer, which is free. Unfortunately I haven’t made use of it as I haven’t managed to actually set up a meeting with anyone. This is mostly my fault for not putting in enough effort, also it’s hard having about 10-14 hours time difference from the German speakers.
Here’s the link:
http://www.language-exchanges.org/
Great. Thanks for sharing!
I’ve read almost all the comments, but my current situation (problem) is not addressed. I wanted a one-on-one class since I plan on learning German quickly (I’m unemployed, very motivated, and love languages) and I thought with a private teacher I could tailor the class to suit my needs. My teacher seems to have little experience teaching beginners, but apart from that, she spends the class time talking about herself and going off on tangents – all in English. She gives me handouts of grammar info, for which I’m grateful, and then she reads what’s on the handouts (in English…), but the REAL deal breaker is that she fails to engage me in practice. I could deal with her tangents and time-wasting story-telling if she would at least create oral exercises in which I have to express myself using the grammar we go over. I’ve been with her for a month (6 hours a week…) and I haven’t spoken a word of German! She’s a lovely person, but she’s clearly more interested in having a nice chat than preparing a foreigner to speak German.
If I tell my academy that I want another teacher, I’m sure it’ll get back to her, and I’ll feel bad. My question for the academy is: what steps can be taken in the event that a private one-on-one teacher isn’t the right “fit” for a student? Can teachers be changed at any time if the student wants?
Interesting question! One on one teaching is by far the most expensive version of learning so the teacher really should feel right for the person who is paying. As for you situation… I kind of understand your concerns but you HAVE to drop her. Or at least have a serious talk with the school and her. What you describe does NOT sound like anything anyone should pay money for. A one-on-one setup should definitely be based on what the student wants. If the student wants pure grammar, while the teacher usually loves speaking… the teacher has to come up with grammar. And if the student wants to talk then talking there shall be even when the teacher thinks a little grammar would be in order. He or she must find a way to sneak it into the backdoor or get the student to the point where they ask about a rule themselves.
And a teacher talking about herself in English… that’s not school time then. That’s meeting with friends. Seriously,
YOU ARE PAYING SERIOUS MONEY!!!!
No need to feel bad about asking that you get what you want. You wouldn’t accept a car in which the gear shift doesn’t work, just because you don’t want to hurt the dealer’s feelings. It’s no different here. Maybe you should even talk to her directly. This way it doesn’t feel “behind the back”
I totally agree with Emanuel. I also understand how hard it is when you don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings – I have a lot of trouble in these situations. But this person has taken your money and a month of your life and not given you what you paid for.
If it helps, think about if it was your job: wouldn’t you rather be told if you were making a big mistake? Wouldn’t you want to become a better teacher, because someone corrected you, rather than a lousy one – who may eventually get fired – because you didn’t know, and people didn’t want to hurt your feelings? And remember, she presumably has other students, who may also be too shy to say something, so other people will benefit from you speaking up, too.
I definitely think that whatever your level, the teacher should be using a little more German than you can fully understand, rather than not enough – it’s great practice to push yourself like this. Especially in a one-on-one lesson, they can do it all at your pace, without worrying you’re taking up other students’ time by asking lots of questions. And right from the start, you can practise asking “Was bedeutet …?” – “What does … mean?” – and “Wie sagt man … (auf Deutsch)” – “How do you say … (in German)”.
That’s a hard one because it is ALL about the teacher for me. Every teacher has an approach that just might not work for one particular person because it doesn’t match their learning style. One question to the teachers:
What’s the most effective way, or your way to learn/teach vocabulary?
Yeah the teacher is definitely important. But the school employs the teacher so it would be interesting to know how the assess the quality. That will be one of my questions. And the one about vocab also. Without learning vocab there’s no learning the language and if a teacher can get their students to actually enjoying it, it’s jackpot.
Hi Emanuel,
If it’s not too late…. I’ve learned Hebrew in an “ulpan” (intensive Hebrew-language course) and German at Goethe Institut, and my questions are based on my experience.
1) What do they do to help with German comprehension. I’m with the other posters–real-world examples are much more useful than scripts, even if you understand zilch for a while. For example, my ulpan teacher used to simply tape the 7AM news broadcast every day, bring it class, have us listen and write down what we understood. At first, the answer was “Good Morning” and then blahblahblah. But over time we acclimated and now I can get just as depressed from the news as any native-born Israeli. :( On the other hand, I’ve been studying German for a year, and listen to the Goethe Institut CD’s in my car and everything…and I still have problems understanding even a single segment of Die Heute Show. :( And I need it, after listening to our depressing news. Listening to music (after reading the lyrics) is also really great way to pick up vocab and improve comprehension. Add to this; watching movies/ news broadcasts/ etc.
2) What sort of real-world integration/ speaking opportunities do they offer. I would pay more for a school that paired you up with speaking or even tandem partners and arranged for you to meet periodically after class. For English speakers, it can be really hard to get anyone to speak to you in German (or Hebrew) because so many people hear the accent and say “oh, I speak English, let’s use that”. I STILL get that here, and I’m fluent in Hebrew (and my Hebrew is usually better than the other person’s English). For German, I have a tandem partner I speak with on Skype and it really helps
Corollary to that–what is the mix in the classroom? My class is all Israeli, so we speak Hebrew to each other at break etc. In ulpan, there was some mix–I spoke Hebrew with the Frogs, the South Americans and the Russians as I speak neither French nor Russian and my Spanish is atrocious. :)
3) I’m going to second/third/ zillionth the suggestion that reading of actual newspapers or magazines be incorporated. I do that on my own and it really helps. But we used to do that in my ulpan class as well (I remember reading about 9-11 in class).
4) What sort of real-world language modules do they include? My ulpan included classes where we covered “how to complain” and “how to argue”. I swear I’m not making this up. These are critical life skills here. I’m pretty sure we also went over CV’s and stuff like that.
5) As others mentioned–how serious is the class? How seriously do they take homework? Do they condition moving up to passing tests? I studied MUCH more for my Hebrew class than I ever have for my German one. Part of the difference is that German is my hobby/ official mid-life crisis so I’m far more relaxed about it. But it’s also because I know that so long as I paid for and show up with some level of reasonable frequency to whatever level I’m in, I will be bumped up to the next level. And I’ll get my certificate.
6) Another thing I would pay more for: matching students up with housing with actual Germans. My first ulpan was when I was in Uni, and was part of an overseas student program here. I was in a dorm apartment with Israeli roommates, one of whom despised English and forced me to speak Hebrew. Huge, huge advantage.
7) Grammar instruction–what sort of tools/ exercises/ cheat sheets are provided? How do thoroughly do they teach the concepts? As a point of reference, the Goethe Institut grammar pages tend to be quite weak. If the teacher isn’t really skilled at explaining the logic/ concepts, you are left to your own resources. In my case, those have included this blog. :)
Hope this helps! Are you going to share with us the name of the school?
It was not to late at all. Thanks for your thoughts and impressions. I especially liked the bit about you being willing to pay more if they organize you opportunities to speak. I think many people would agree with that but I don’t actually think many schools do that. Like… invite native speakers or organize meet ups.
The school is the Sprachatel… oh wait, no spoilers. Maybe it’s enough info to find it on Google though :)
Hallo,
From my experience, I will share the following:
After starting learning German, I wanted to enroll in another school so I could continue learning it. I made the entrance test at this new school but it was extremely difficult. I almost could not answer most of the question and of course, I failed it. They proposed me to join them from the beginning but obviously I didn’t. In my opinion, they should offer different entrance test depending on the level you want to join. If I want to learn A2, I see it pretty difficult to test my knowledge with a C1-level exam. Don’t you think?
So the question would be something like this: Are there different entrance tests according to the levels?
Danke! :)
Hmm… that sounds weird. Ideally a placement test should be fit for ALL levels because the purpose is not that you pass it, the purpose is to see where you stand, to place you. You can’t really “fail” a proper placement test. The test can only fail you and put you in the wrong class. I don’t know what your level of German is but if you fail at B2 questions or stuff that is taught in C1 that doesn’t mean that you have to start at A1… it just means that you’re not ready for B2. Maybe they just wanted you to take a beginners course to milk you for as long as possible. Did you talk to them about it?
If you find a school in Berlin teaching German the way you do…just let us know ;-)
I would ask, Have you heard of dyslexia? I have, I’m dyslexic. Do you have a key to unlock the dyslexic language learning door? PLLLLLEEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEE say yes??!!
I’ve heard of dyslexia (Legastinie in German) but never in context of learning a foreign language actually.
Sounds like this can be quite tough, with all the textbook focus classes usually have.
Without knowing very much about dyslexia itself, I still think it’s totally possible to learn a new language. There just has to be a lot of focus on listening.
Or on drawing or using images… for flashcards, I mean. Instead of writing down German, you could use a random image. So for “beautiful” you use your partner or anything you associate with the word. This way you can still study vocab without having to struggle with letters all the time.
Sure, this won’t work for super abstract words but I think it could help. No idea if it makes sense though.
Hi, I’ve just read all the comments and I find it really inspiring. Only one year ago I started my own English language school and we’re changing the way English is taught here. I see the same teaching/learning problems in Poland. I’m very curious about your research and feel disappointed that there was no outcome.
Yeah, I was disappointed too, but I guess the school was just interested in some cheap promo and did not really want to invest thought. Great that you actually found and read all these comments because they are really interesting indeed. If I may ask, how exactly are you changing the way? Like.. do you mean minor tweaks or are you using a whole new approach?
Grüße nach Polen!!
Thanks for such a quick response and the question! We play board and card games on a regular basis like 2-3 times a month, focus on speaking during the classes (no reading, listening – it can be done individually, before the class, not on the lesson; see -> flipped classroom idea) and introduce fun activities with self-created flashcards (we use an app called “cram” to make learning words more fun and easier). We don’t teach to pass any certificates nor tests, we give opportunities to communicate naturally in English. What is your opinion? I’m constantly working on improving our methods, hence I found your blog :)
I totally agree that the stuff people can do alone at home should be die alone at home. For instance studying vocab or reading up on some grammar. In class, you can use the teacher’s ability to clear up the questions that the students weren’t able to answer and of course you can speak. But doing “fill in the blank” exercises in class really is a waste of class time.
A thing I always thoroughly disliked in language classes was “working in pairs” … like, doing a fictional dialogue with someone who doesn’t speak the language either. That always felt draggy.
A really crazy idea would be to have a couple of advanced students join in on beginners courses so the students there can speak more and be corrected (the teacher alone can only do so much) and then give the “mentor” students a discount on their advanced course. That way you’d get more teachers without really paying more salary :). But I don’t run a school so I don’t know if this makes sense or can be done…